First Brew; questions about mistakes.

[Reelale]

The term "hotly alcoholic" has nothing to do with the temp a beer is brewed at it's just a term for that raw alcoholic jet fuel taste that some really strong beers/wines/even spirits have. It really just means it needs some time to smooth out.

I think there might be a misconception here. Most of the hot, alcoholic taste is due to fusel alcohols. Any fermentation condition that causes an increase in cell growth will result in fusel alcohols. It could be high fermentation temperature, over-oxygenating, or even the amount of available nitrogen in the wort. Fusels alcohols can be increased to unacceptable levels by fermentation temperatures. And in my experience, they never go away completely regardless of conditioning time.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

What dry yeast turns out a decent Belgian. Not T58!

It certainly won't be ideal, but based on the OPs kit, I am pretty sure it would be a dry yeast packet. Also, for many first time brewers dry yeast is a great option (provided it is an adequate pitch count and not all dead) because it does not require a starter (again assuming proper amount).

I have never brewed a Belgian beer with dry yeast, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[PseudoChef]

, and Pseudochef (who has a PhD in yeast biology BTW)

Biochemistry with emphasis on NMR structural biology, technically. Just wanted to clear that up. But I've done work with E. coli, S. cerevisiae, and now a variety of human cell lines.

I'm out of this discussion because it's just evident that some people aren't going to be swayed one way or the other. In the end, it all comes down to what your palate tells you. Mine tells me that I can make a good high gravity beer and have it drinkable much quicker than 6 months. I just wish newer brewers would realize that because some member of an online forum made a snazzy MS Paint diagram, that it isn't actually true.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I just wish newer brewers would realize that because some member of an online forum made a snazzy MS Paint diagram, that it isn't actually true.

I think the most important thing to remember with said MS Paint diagram is that it can be useful as a generalization, but its just that, a generalization, to which there are always exceptions. And on top of that, how much longer a "long time" is depends on a lot of factors, including, as you said, personal palettes.

 

[LouisvilleBrews]

I'm not going to argue anymore about this with you. You believe one thing, I believe another.

I just came from dinner with a bunch of brewers, oh not just a bunch of noobs, but some of the guys that own a couple homebrewshops in town, another who teaches the bjcp classes as well as homebrewing as adult ed through a couple communtiy colleges, another who publishes the local craft brewing magazine, which also covers the homebrew scene in my area.

I asked them about Tripels, and they all said the same thing 6-12 months is about the right timeframe for tripels....One of the guys who owns one of the shops and they sell their own kits, said their kits say the same thing on the instruction, it benefits from 6-12 months secondary and or bottle conditioning.

SO you may think I'm being irresponisble, I think I'm being realistic, especially since I can't count the times where a "christmas brewer" came on here all dissapointed that the tripel or barelywine that they chose as their first batch tasted like rocket fuel because they believed it would be ready in a week or two...and it wasn't.

So I'm gonna stick with my guns on this....I stand by what I said about his tripel and I'm sure you'll do the same. Oh well. That's life, people don't always agree.

I really would like to understand what it is exactly that you're talking about. This 'jet fuel' taste, is it a different type of alcohol taste or is it just that the alcohol is more apparent? And what about the flavors 'melding' makes the alcohol taste subside? I think the flavors may become more smooth, but I don't see how that interacts with the alcohol.
The oxidation a beer would get over the course of a year seems that it would outweigh the flavor 'smoothness', unlike in bourbon.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The alcohol hotness can subdue over time. As Revvy said, any wine (and especially apfelwein) is a good example of that effect. I do not know what exactly is happening in this process, but it does happen. My conjecture is that some flavor compounds precipitate, and micro oxidation of various compounds leads to a rounder and mellower flavor.

That said, this effect is good in some of the best beers in the world and in specific styles (sours, old ales, barley wines). In others it may be desireable. As this thread shows, Rev likes his aged a lot. I have found that oxidation becomes an issue in that amount of time. Also, I generally prefer the bright and brash flavors in beer. Occasional and far between do I prefer an aged beer over its fresh counterpart. I save my aged products for wine and mead.

I think the lesson in this thread is to try some now and save a few to try in a year. Then make your own decision about which effect you like. As I said in my first post, extended aging may be a choice you choose, but it is absolutely not necessary.

 

[LouisvilleBrews]

The alcohol hotness can subdue over time. As Revvy said, any wine (and especially apfelwein) is a good example of that effect. I do not know what exactly is happening in this process, but it does happen. My conjecture is that some flavor compounds precipitate, and micro oxidation of various compounds leads to a rounder and mellower flavor.

Well the amount of alcohol is not decreasing, correct? The other flavors drowning out alcohol is what would be happening unless you have high alcohols like fusels. Acidity and esters are going to increase in the bottle, masking the alcohol. But what else is it masking, even if it is not overly oxidized?

 

[xjmox14x]

This can be argued both ways til kingdom come. I don't understand what the big deal is. We all can just take dr. yeast's word for it that there's no scientific evidence that supports conditioning, or we can figure it out for ourselves. We're not searching for the Higgs Boson... we don't need to travel to Switzerland to ask CERN if we can use their equipment for a little bit, just to settle an argument. This is dealing with "experiments" we can all do at home with the equipment we have.

Make a high gravity beer (I say high gravity because if there is no relation between OG and time conditioning, a higher gravity beer will serve best to prove the point). As some on here have stated, make sure absolutely all variables are in check and give you the best chance to make the best beer possible (correct water salts, mash pH, fermentation temperature, pitching rate, wort aeration, etc.). If alcohol and OG are not directly related to beer conditioning and how "good" and "clean" it tastes, go make a 12% RIS or 9% tripel, or 11% belgian strong. The day it's done fermenting, immediately cool it, force carb it, and drink it. Then bottle some, and try it after 6 months, then after 1 year.

I'm a big fan of science, but I'm also a big fan of hearing it from the horse's mouth. No disrespect to pseudochef or anyone else preaching science, but this is not something that requires a certain degree of trust and faith from a published science journal because us normal citizens just don't have the means to experience it by ourselves. We're not studying brain synapses... we're making beer. And personal experimentation should be ENCOURAGED.

There's no argument that a tripel can be drinkable before 6 months. The toilet water in my bathroom after I drop my morning deuce from a venti mochaccino is drinkable too. Doesn't mean it'll taste good.

I've noticed my beers taste better and cleaner with a little conditioning. Now I don't have the luxury of making my beer completely variable free (technically no one can, but you can get it close enough for argument), but I'd love to see someone do an experiment of their own as mentioned above. It'll tell us a lot more than people on here, from both sides, thumping their chests because they heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who has a degree in yeast sex.

In the meantime, I'll just be drinking my beer as I please..

 

[PseudoChef]

And personal experimentation should be ENCOURAGED.

I agree a lot with what you have written, actually. I just feel that some very vocal members of this forum are not encouraging personal experimentation with copy-paste diatribes about excessive aging.

 

[Wilson1911]

Thank you for all the feedback, this community is more than informative. I look forward to becoming part of it.

I decided to rack the Belgian Tripel in a secondary container for a long period, I'll check up on it in 6 months or so. In the mean time I picked up an English Pale Ale and some more pails, which I brewed up yesterday.

Hopefully the Belgian will turn out well enough. I know I made some mistakes; mainly in my steeping temperature and I had a boil over. The color is also a deep amber which I believe it should be a light golden. I am sure it wont be perfect but regardless I'll drink it and enjoy it, and conquer it on a later day.