First BIAB day; few things could have gone better

[cegan09]

So last night I had my first ever all grain, and first BIAB brew day. Started with a Belgian Pale figuring I should go with something on the easier side. I have an 8.5 gallon pot making 3-3.5 gallon batches. Things started well enough. Hit my mash in water temp, and nailed my mash temp once the grains went in. But first lesson came soon after.

1. I need a better thermometer. I have a dial thermometer installed in my pot with a 2 or 3 inch probe. Works great when there is no grain in the pot. When there is grain it's heavily affected by clumps of grain around it. Lesson learned, get a good digital and take temps in a few places.
   
   
2. I need insulation. We didn't do anything to the pot during mash, figuring we'd just see how it did the first time. I ended up having to add heat twice as it would dip 4-5 degrees in roughly 40 minutes. So I'll do something, I like the Reflectix insulation home depot sells.
   
   
3. I need a better bag. I bought a cheap one on amazon. It was way too big, and not well made. Already tore a hole in it. So, good quality bag here I come.

I got the grains out, squeezed them a bit, probably not enough. I thought I was doing well. Looked like my pre-boil volume was right, took a gravity reading, which when adjusted for temperature matched what beersmith said it should. Boil went ok.

Post boil is where I found my issues. My post boil volume was a little high. I think my evaporation rates are lower when it's not pure water, so that will need to be adjusted. I was also crazy off my gravity. Was supposed to hit 1.054, was down at 1.043. I think I have some theories.

1. I need to double crush my grains. The LHBS said it wouldn't be necessary since they had a new mill and a double crush would basically make it flour. I don't buy it, the single crush wasn't that fine. So double next time.
   
   
2. I need better mash temp control. I have a feeling I over heated it at one point when adding heat.
   
   
3. I need to do more squeezing, or some sort of sparge. I also need gloves so I can squeeze without acquiring minor burns.
   
   
4. I need to work out my evaporation a little better and adjust. I may have started with a little bit too much water, and I definitely ended with too much.
   
   
5. I need to suck it up and get a refractometer. Dealing with samples and temperature compensation with the hydrometer is annoying. I've always believed in simply owning the correct tools, so might as well buy one more.

Other than missing my gravity, the rest went smooth. My home made immersion chiller is a champ. Boiling to under 80°F in about 15 minutes. It's in the carboy holding steady at 65 and will start ramping up tonight to 70. No noticeable yeast activity yet, but the strain (wyeast 1214) says it may be slow to start. I did make a starter, but mistimed it and activity was done about 12 hours before I needed it. Not worrying, I'll let it have a full day or two to get going before I worry.

Anyway, Had fun and I think I have a good list of what to improve on next time. This should be a fun journey.

 

[theseeker4]

So last night I had my first ever all grain, and first BIAB brew day. Started with a Belgian Pale figuring I should go with something on the easier side. I have an 8.5 gallon pot making 3-3.5 gallon batches. Things started well enough. Hit my mash in water temp, and nailed my mash temp once the grains went in. But first lesson came soon after.

1. I need a better thermometer. I have a dial thermometer installed in my pot with a 2 or 3 inch probe. Works great when there is no grain in the pot. When there is grain it's heavily affected by clumps of grain around it. Lesson learned, get a good digital and take temps in a few places.
   
   
2. I need insulation. We didn't do anything to the pot during mash, figuring we'd just see how it did the first time. I ended up having to add heat twice as it would dip 4-5 degrees in roughly 40 minutes. So I'll do something, I like the Reflectix insulation home depot sells.
   
   
3. I need a better bag. I bought a cheap one on amazon. It was way too big, and not well made. Already tore a hole in it. So, good quality bag here I come.

I got the grains out, squeezed them a bit, probably not enough. I thought I was doing well. Looked like my pre-boil volume was right, took a gravity reading, which when adjusted for temperature matched what beersmith said it should. Boil went ok.

Post boil is where I found my issues. My post boil volume was a little high. I think my evaporation rates are lower when it's not pure water, so that will need to be adjusted. I was also crazy off my gravity. Was supposed to hit 1.054, was down at 1.043. I think I have some theories.

1. I need to double crush my grains. The LHBS said it wouldn't be necessary since they had a new mill and a double crush would basically make it flour. I don't buy it, the single crush wasn't that fine. So double next time.
   
   
2. I need better mash temp control. I have a feeling I over heated it at one point when adding heat.
   
   
3. I need to do more squeezing, or some sort of sparge. I also need gloves so I can squeeze without acquiring minor burns.
   
   
4. I need to work out my evaporation a little better and adjust. I may have started with a little bit too much water, and I definitely ended with too much.
   
   
5. I need to suck it up and get a refractometer. Dealing with samples and temperature compensation with the hydrometer is annoying. I've always believed in simply owning the correct tools, so might as well buy one more.

Other than missing my gravity, the rest went smooth. My home made immersion chiller is a champ. Boiling to under 80°F in about 15 minutes. It's in the carboy holding steady at 65 and will start ramping up tonight to 70. No noticeable yeast activity yet, but the strain (wyeast 1214) says it may be slow to start. I did make a starter, but mistimed it and activity was done about 12 hours before I needed it. Not worrying, I'll let it have a full day or two to get going before I worry.

Anyway, Had fun and I think I have a good list of what to improve on next time. This should be a fun journey.

What were your pre and post boil volumes and gravity readings? You said you hit your pre boil gravity and volume, were a little if on post boil volume, and off by a lot by your post boil gravity. If your pre boil numbers were accurate,your post boil gravity should have been closed if your volume was close, unless you had a lot more volume than planned for.... How accurate are your volume readings? Did you correct for temperature on volume as well as gravity?

 

[BeardedBrews]

Getting the boil-off rate can be pretty hard, but with practice I'm sure you'll beat the 10 point undershoot. You can use this to figure out if you would have been right on by boiling off a little extra (or adding some water at the end) http://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

My feedback on reflectix is that it works great, within reason. Don't forget to insulate the lid well. I am sure that a couple of old sleeping bags would work as well or better. You're on the right track about taking the temperature at multiple locations, but you'll want to stir everything up really well before you make a temperature change. If the spot you read was cold, but the rest was already hot, you could overshoot.

+1 on better bag, it's great.

A refractometer is helpful in several cases where you want to make a quick decision:

During Mash - Watch for the plato to stop changing and you're probably done mashing.

Pre-Boil - Quickly record your numbers so that you can adjust beersmith for next time.

During Boil - Pull quick samples to make sure you are on the right track for OG.

End of Boil - Confirm that you're close to OG before you start chilling.


You do have to be careful about using the boil to correct volume mistakes, it's easy to get a more bitter / darker / caramel forward beer with an extra 20-40 minutes of boiling.

 

[cegan09]

I'll see if I can remember my numbers. They're all written down at home.

• started with 5.46 gallons (beersmith calculation)
  
  
• Mashed and removed grains. I had 4.85 gallons, which was about right. I had measured 0.8 gallons/hr boil off with pure water. Then estimated 0.5 gallons lost to trub and whatnot.
  
  
• Pre-boil I got a reading of 1.037 @158°F, which temperature corrects to 1.041 or something? A few below beersmith saying it should have been 1.044.
  
  
• Post boil I had 4.125 gallons or so. just over 3.5 went into the fermenter the rest i left in the kettle. I measured 1.042ish at 72°F so temp correction is only a degree to 1.043.

I figure it's just going to take a few brews to learn my hardware and procedure. Next time I'll double crush the grains and be a lot more stringent in temperature reading and see where that gets me.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

So last night I had my first ever all grain, and first BIAB brew day. Started with a Belgian Pale figuring I should go with something on the easier side. I have an 8.5 gallon pot making 3-3.5 gallon batches. Things started well enough. Hit my mash in water temp, and nailed my mash temp once the grains went in. But first lesson came soon after.

1. Re: Thermometer. Check out those at thermoworks. Great quality, lifetime warranty. I have an rt600C and ma very happy with it. The only thing I regret is that it isn't manually recalibratable. There's an automated calibration feature called "reset" that works well so far.
   
   
2. re: Insulation. Cover the pot, throw some blankets on it.
   
   
3. @Wilserbrewer has your back. Great bags, I recommend the grand slam package that includes 2 hop bags and a pulley

I got the grains out, squeezed them a bit, probably not enough. I thought I was doing well. Looked like my pre-boil volume was right, took a gravity reading, which when adjusted for temperature matched what beersmith said it should. Boil went ok.

Temperature adjustment for gravity readings are not very accurate. Cool the sample beforehand

Post boil is where I found my issues. My post boil volume was a little high. I think my evaporation rates are lower when it's not pure water, so that will need to be adjusted. I was also crazy off my gravity. Was supposed to hit 1.054, was down at 1.043. I think I have some theories.

The evaporation rate should be about the same, if anything it should be a little greater since a certain % of the wort will be sugar molecules instead of just water. I have a boil off estimator in my mash calculator (link in sig)

1. I need to double crush my grains.
   
   Only way to tell is to check your conversion efficiency by taking a gravity, volume, and temperature reading after squeezing the grain bag (and before sparging if applicable). Plug into my calculator again to get accurate calculation which will take thermal expansion into account
   
   
2. re: Mash temp control. Insulation will help. Otherwise STIR continously and apply the lowest heat possible until temp reaches desired temp.
   
   
   
3. re: squeeze, try to kill it. Re: Sparge, go for it. I pull bag, squeeze, dunk in pot, stir for 5 minutes, then pull bag again, and squeeze again. Combine first runnings (from mash) and second runnings (from sparge)
   
   
4. Refractometer: Yup, they're awesome. See Sean Terrills calculator in my sig below for how to use it to get the FG.

 

[BeardedBrews]

[*]Pre-boil I got a reading of 1.037 @158°F, which temperature corrects to 1.041 or something? A few below beersmith saying it should have been 1.044.


[*]Post boil I had 4.125 gallons or so. just over 3.5 went into the fermenter the rest i left in the kettle. I measured 1.042ish at 72°F so temp correction is only a degree to 1.043.
[/LIST]


I figure it's just going to take a few brews to learn my hardware and procedure. Next time I'll double crush the grains and be a lot more stringent in temperature reading and see where that gets me.

Based on your numbers I'd say the error is in your hot gravity reading. There is going to be less error in your cold reading, so working back from the 1.043 in the fermenter, if you add back 0.725 gallons (dilution) you should have a gravity of 1.037 at your hydrometer calibration temperature.

My Hydrometer is a 60F calibration, which would have read 1.016 at 158F. Even if you had a 68F hydrometer it should only have read 1.019.

My guess is that your mash efficiency was much lower than you thought and your pre-boil gravity was just low. You could have had big clumps in the mash if you weren't stirring the hell out of it, or you could have thought it was warm while it was actually really cold in spots.

There is almost no harm in stirring regularly on your BIAB mash, and there are tons of benefits. You will reduce the chances of dough balls, give good circulation to the wort that's in there, equalize the temperature across the pot, and get a chance to take a nice sweet sniff of wort! Speaking for myself only, I get perfectly adequate efficiency without double-milling my grain (80-90% Conversion / 75-80% brewhouse). I expect you would see the same just by stirring more.

 

[cegan09]

Thanks.

I need to get a better ladle/spoon/paddle/whatever you want to call it. I did mix a lot, but I suspect not well enough. And I agree that my hot readings were probably wrong. I have a refractometer on the way for future brew days.


Beer is chugging along. I've let it rise up to about 70, and will let it go maybe a degree or two higher. No high krausen yet, maybe an 1/8th of an inch layer. But it's going. Was getting about a bubble every second out of the air lock last night.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks.

I need to get a better ladle/spoon/paddle/whatever you want to call it. I did mix a lot, but I suspect not well enough. And I agree that my hot readings were probably wrong. I have a refractometer on the way for future brew days.


Beer is chugging along. I've let it rise up to about 70, and will let it go maybe a degree or two higher. No high krausen yet, maybe an 1/8th of an inch layer. But it's going. Was getting about a bubble every second out of the air lock last night.

I'd want to call it a stiff wire whisk. They break up the grain balls better than a spoon or ladle.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'd want to call it a stiff wire whisk. They break up the grain balls better than a spoon or ladle.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VZ8S1Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Works wonders and doesn't snag / tug on the bag.

 

[cegan09]

So I cracked the first bottle tonight. 10 days in the bottle. It needs more but I'm impatient. Came out waaay too dark to be a belgian pale. But the taste is close. Slight stale aftertaste. Thinking it's my water since I didn't do anything to it and it's tap. My tap isn't great here. Overall pretty happy, taste is way better than I expected from the wort taste.

Think I'm hooked. Brew #3 this weekend.

Ignore the filthy hands. I was working in the garage all night. Also no idea why it's sideways.

 

[wilserbrewer]

So I cracked the first bottle tonight. 10 days in the bottle. It needs more but I'm impatient.

Yes, more time would be a good thing. Give it a week or two, then stash bottles in the fridge for a week or three....cold conditioning time is nice IME to really clear and crisp up a brew. The biggest advantage of kegging in that your beer is stored cold and happy....

 

[cegan09]

Yes, more time would be a good thing. Give it a week or two, then stash bottles in the fridge for a week or three....cold conditioning time is nice IME to really clear and crisp up a brew. The biggest advantage of kegging in that your beer is stored cold and happy....

I'm just impatient. Seeing as this was brew #2 I didn't have a stock of previous beers to hold me over. They've been getting a little better with more age.

Used your bag for the first time on Brew #3 last week. Way nicer than the cheap one I had. And I just picked up 3 kegs today, so that will be fun. The trick is I'm currently using my kegorator as a fermentation chamber. I might need to get another fridge.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Well it seems like you are learning quickly....rather than resist the temptation to consume early...simply make more beer

This is known as the pipeline principle lol

 

[pricelessbrewing]

This is known as the pipeline principle lol

Going to have to steal that.