First batch help

[flpsktr24]

Hello fellow brewers,


i have a couple questions concerning the first batch that i did...
ill first give you a background of what i did i made a coopers lager kit the one that comes with the ale yeast. i added 3lbs of dme. everything went smoothly through fermentation all the way to bottling. it fermented 68-70 degrees. and i fermented for 3 weeks. then when i bottled i used the 3/4 of priming sugar. an it was a 5 gallon batch. it was brewed on april 5.

now my questions...

1) is 3lbs of dme too much? tasting the beer it seems real sweet is that a result of to much malt? will that be the result in all beers if i were to add the 3bls of dme? should i equal it out with other sugars if so which?

2)the have been in the bottles for over 3 weeks now the carbonation has gotten better, as far when you open the beer it hisses and when you pour there is a head to the beer. but when you taste it, it still seems flat? now i have tried rolling the beer on a flat surface to reactivate the yeast but what would be the cause of this? did i leave it in the fermenter for to long should i have gone just 2 weeks instead?

 

[jonnyp1980]

How many gallons?

 

[mattmcl]

Malt, either grains, DME or LME, is sweet. Hops are bitter and are used to balance the sweetness of the malt. Did your kit include hop pellets, plugs or whole? Or was it simply a can?

I haven't used kits in literally a couple decades, but when I did I remember some of them "included" hops in the can- which was really just extracted hop oil, which is very volatile and does not stand the test of time.

I suspect the issue is with your hops in any case. Too little or underutilized.

Give your bottles at least another week.

 

[flpsktr24]

How many gallons?

it was for a 5 gallon batch

 

[flpsktr24]

Malt, either grains, DME or LME, is sweet. Hops are bitter and are used to balance the sweetness of the malt. Did your kit include hop pellets, plugs or whole? Or was it simply a can?

I haven't used kits in literally a couple decades, but when I did I remember some of them "included" hops in the can- which was really just extracted hop oil, which is very volatile and does not stand the test of time.

I suspect the issue is with your hops in any case. Too little or underutilized.

Give your bottles at least another week.

it just included the coopers lager pre-hopped can

 

[brewvac]

I suspect the issue is with your hops in any case. Too little or underutilized.

Give your bottles at least another week.

+1

Do you remember what your hop schedule was and/or what hops were used?

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

If you want to add 3 pounds of Malt Extract to a canned kit, then I would suggest adding one ounce of a mild bittering hop like Tettnanger. This would result in the "addition" to the kit having roughly 18 IBU's. Since many beer styles range from 15 to 30 IBU, an addition like this would "balance" with the existing beer and not increase sweetness. This would be a good starting point for most styles other than IPA, APA, or RIS.

Adding just malt extract with no extra hops will result in much sweeter beer. My general rule of thumb is that I can add up to one pound of extract to a kit recipe without adding hops. Additions of more than one pound require addition of enough hops to prevent making the beer too sweet.

 

[jonnyp1980]

3 lbs seems a little light. I use around 6lbs of extract malt.

 

[Kingfish]

3 lbs seems a little light. I use around 6lbs of extract malt.

Seems this was in addition to the can of hopped LME.

I agree in the perceived sweetness of the brew is caused by a lack of hop bitterness. Also, the yeast you used (taped to the top of the can?) could not have attenuated very well leaving fermentables unfermented. This could also be your issue with the carbonation. I think the best bet would give them a couple/few weeks more weeks at around 70f. Not much you can do about the sweetness at this point. MAYBE add some(a drop?) hop extract to the glass before pouring. You could throw them in the closet and brew another batch over hopped and then mix them.

 

[Kingfish]

Double tap

 

[jbaysurfer]

OG and FG? Sweetness can come from under attenuation as well, though I do agree you should've added a little bit of hops to balance out the dme addition.

 

[jbaysurfer]

BTW, the bottle conditioning is going fine. Leave them another week to condition and that c02 you hear hissing out of the cap right now will dissolve into the beer.

 

[flpsktr24]

Brewvac,

i didn't use any additional hops all that was used was the pre-hopped can

 

[jonnyp1980]

Seems this was in addition to the can of hopped LME.

Ah. Makes more sense.

 

[peter78]

give your bottles 3-4 weeks total. then refrigerate for 48 hrs. this will help the co2 get absorbed into the beer.

 

[stretch2002]

+1 to hopping
I have made a few coopers kits and find that they do turn out too sweet with 3 lb of extract in addition to the kit can. It turns out better with maybe 1 1/2 or 2 lb of extract, with 1/2 lb dextrose. Even better with the addition of flavor and aroma hops, and some steeped specialty grains.

 

[brewvac]

i didn't use any additional hops all that was used was the pre-hopped can

That explains the sweetness. Like others have said, the taste will mellow out the more you leave the bottles at room temperature. Enjoy this batch. If you don't like the sweetness, mix a little well hopped IPA of your choice in a glass with your homebrew and it will balance it out for now. My first batch was too bitter, I added about a little dogfish head to a couple of glasses and was surprised how nicely it balanced out. Good luck on your next batch!

 

[Revvy]

Brewvac,

i didn't use any additional hops all that was used was the pre-hopped can

So basically you just dumped a bunch more sugars into a beer without balancing anything else?

Do yourself a favor, and before you start messing with recipes, learn about recipe creation first.

If you're brewing with kits, and want a stronger beer, then brew higher gravity kits.

If you want a strong beer, don't choose a normal gravity beer and decide that since you read about boosting gravity by adding more sugars to just add more sugar, choose a beet of the grav you want, just like if you wand a peach beer, don't choose a non fruit beer recipe and try to "figure out" how to add the fruit...get a kit or recipe that has everything you need in the right quantities you need. Recipes are about a BALANCE between flavors, bitterness, aromas, what have you, and until you get a few batches under your belt, and learn the fundamentals, stick with the already proven and balanced recipes. That way you don't have the extra step of trying to figure out what went wrong if the beer doesn't taste good.....if the recipe or kit already tastes good (and they would have gone through tastes tests and ALREADY before you got to them- you know they are already good, if not award winning beers, if you went with a kit or book recipe, they have been vetted) if there is something not right, you will have an easier time trying to figure out what went wrong in terms of your brewing PROCESS, not because you went off the ranch and on top of trying to actually learn to brew, you also through a bunch of crap into the equation.

If you want a fruit beer, buy a fruit beer kit....

Beer recipes are a balance...and if you add to one variable, that will affect other parts of it...For example if you decide to raise the gravity of a balanced beer...a beer where the hops balance out the sweetness...and you raise the maltniness of it without also balancing the hops, then your beer may end up being way too cloyingly sweet. Or if you just add sugar willy nilly it could become overly dry, or cidery.

At this stage most folks trying to do it don't know enough yet, and they won't learn just by jacking a recipe o your first time out of the box. Don't start altering recipes on your first batch, or else you're gonna be posting a thread titled, "Why does my beer taste like I licked Satan's Anus after he ate a dozen coneys?" And we're not going to be able to answer you, because you've screwed with the recipe as well as maybe made a few noob brewer mistakes that typically get made, and neither you, nor us, are going to be able to figure out what went wrong. Because there's too many variables.

Just brew a couple batches and learn from them, and read books about recipe creation before you start messing around. It's not about tossing stuff into a fermenter and seeing how it turns out.If you want to make strong beers, learn to make GOOD beers first.

Read and learn about creating great RECIPES, not just how to boost the alcohol content of a beer. Learn about the ingredients, how they affect each other, how they balance each other.


There's nothing WRONG with Cooper's kits, or any kits really, they don't need to be messed with by a bunch of new brewers who don't know anything yet.

They weren't made by amateurs for chrissake, recipe kits be it kit and kilo or other kits are designed by folks with a LOT MORE EXPERIENCE then the person wanting to f with it....

 

[brewvac]

I don't think there's a reason to slam the OP for having a misstep on his first batch. Isn't that why this is in the Beginners section of the forum? I'm guessing that through this thread he's already picked up on the idea of adding extra hops when adding extra DME or LME. Lesson learned - no lectures necessary.

 

[Revvy]

I'm NOT slamming him, I've giving him ADVICE.....And trying to explain WHY his beer didn't turn out...

It's the same advice I've given on here hundreds of times when we get threads like this, and MOST folks, obviously are not as thin skinned as you. No one's EVER said that particular post was, as you put it, "Slamming" him.

 

[homebrewdad]

I don't think there's a reason to slam the OP for having a misstep on his first batch. Isn't that why this is in the Beginners section of the forum? I'm guessing that through this thread he's already picked up on the idea of adding extra hops when adding extra DME or LME. Lesson learned - no lectures necessary.

The advice was colorful, but not insulting. Revvy didn't call names, he didn't insult the poster - he just pointed out that if you start screwing with recipes before you understand what you are doing, you'll end up with bad beer, and it will be hard to get help... off flavors are enough of a challenge for us new brewers learning the process.

Add in wonky recipe changes, and it becomes unmanageable.

 

[flpsktr24]

So basically you just dumped a bunch more sugars into a beer without balancing anything else?

Do yourself a favor, and before you start messing with recipes, learn about recipe creation first.

If you're brewing with kits, and want a stronger beer, then brew higher gravity kits.

If you want a strong beer, don't choose a normal gravity beer and decide that since you read about boosting gravity by adding more sugars to just add more sugar, choose a beet of the grav you want, just like if you wand a peach beer, don't choose a non fruit beer recipe and try to "figure out" how to add the fruit...get a kit or recipe that has everything you need in the right quantities you need. Recipes are about a BALANCE between flavors, bitterness, aromas, what have you, and until you get a few batches under your belt, and learn the fundamentals, stick with the already proven and balanced recipes. That way you don't have the extra step of trying to figure out what went wrong if the beer doesn't taste good.....if the recipe or kit already tastes good (and they would have gone through tastes tests and ALREADY before you got to them- you know they are already good, if not award winning beers, if you went with a kit or book recipe, they have been vetted) if there is something not right, you will have an easier time trying to figure out what went wrong in terms of your brewing PROCESS, not because you went off the ranch and on top of trying to actually learn to brew, you also through a bunch of crap into the equation.

If you want a fruit beer, buy a fruit beer kit....

Beer recipes are a balance...and if you add to one variable, that will affect other parts of it...For example if you decide to raise the gravity of a balanced beer...a beer where the hops balance out the sweetness...and you raise the maltniness of it without also balancing the hops, then your beer may end up being way too cloyingly sweet. Or if you just add sugar willy nilly it could become overly dry, or cidery.

At this stage most folks trying to do it don't know enough yet, and they won't learn just by jacking a recipe o your first time out of the box. Don't start altering recipes on your first batch, or else you're gonna be posting a thread titled, "Why does my beer taste like I licked Satan's Anus after he ate a dozen coneys?" And we're not going to be able to answer you, because you've screwed with the recipe as well as maybe made a few noob brewer mistakes that typically get made, and neither you, nor us, are going to be able to figure out what went wrong. Because there's too many variables.

Just brew a couple batches and learn from them, and read books about recipe creation before you start messing around. It's not about tossing stuff into a fermenter and seeing how it turns out.If you want to make strong beers, learn to make GOOD beers first.

Read and learn about creating great RECIPES, not just how to boost the alcohol content of a beer. Learn about the ingredients, how they affect each other, how they balance each other.


There's nothing WRONG with Cooper's kits, or any kits really, they don't need to be messed with by a bunch of new brewers who don't know anything yet.

They weren't made by amateurs for chrissake, recipe kits be it kit and kilo or other kits are designed by folks with a LOT MORE EXPERIENCE then the person wanting to f with it....

My intent was not to boost the gravity to have a higher alcohol level or to get a stronger beer i simply wanted more flavor. i also didn't wing it an just decide to add 3 lbs of dme to the beer. and in my opinion you say stick to the coopers recipe which is just to add sugar well i have had that before and i think it tastes nasty... so i did do some research and search these forums and i even made a post before i started to brew on recommendations of what to do with coopers canned kits. and the general consensus that i got was that a lot of people added 3lbs of dme, so that's what i decided to try....

 

[brewvac]

It's his beer, he can try whatever he wants.

I've trolled here for a while and Revvy has written some very educational and helpful comments to people. I just thought this was came on too thick. But since I'm not the OP, I'll step aside and let the thread go on. Sorry to the rest for taking it off topic.

Happy Brewing!

 

[Kingfish]

...and the general consensus that i got was that a lot of people added 3lbs of dme, so that's what i decided to try....

And a good try. You are trying and that is the point. If you had just dumped in 3 pounds of table sugar then I would have not read any further.

You are on your way. Next time you will want to add some more hops that what is included in the HLME or maybe skip the HLME for unhopped and add your own hops. Also will want to use a better yeast than what Coopers includes. When I was starting out my LHBS took the yeast out of the kit I bought, threw it away and gave me some fresh dry Nottingham. Used it for every extract batch I did. Hell, I still use it some in a house brew where I need a quick neutral yeast.

 

[homebrewdad]

Revvy's advice is sound. Adding 3 lb of extract is fine, but be sure to balance it with some hops, or yeah, you get sweet beer.

OP, I think that if you are trying to get a more flavorful brew, you might want to consider not using a Cooper's kit as a base to begin with. I guess that they are a fine place to start, but I get the feeling that most consider them barely a step above Mr. Beer. As soon as you see "hopped extract", people's eyes glaze over - you don't know what the hops are, they obviously can't be fresh, it's hard to figure out any balance, etc.

See about an extract kit at your LHBS (maybe one that includes some speciality grains for steeping). If you are ordering online, the big carriers have GREAT recipe kits that will yeild some really tasty beer.

Once you get the process down (1 batch? 10 batches? Up to you), maybe move to recipes - that's when the tinkering truly begins.

 

[brewvac]

My intent was not to boost the gravity to have a higher alcohol level or to get a stronger beer i simply wanted more flavor. i also didn't wing it an just decide to add 3 lbs of dme to the beer. and in my opinion you say stick to the coopers recipe which is just to add sugar well i have had that before and i think it tastes nasty... so i did do some research and search these forums and i even made a post before i started to brew on recommendations of what to do with coopers canned kits. and the general consensus that i got was that a lot of people added 3lbs of dme, so that's what i decided to try....

No issues flpsktr. The worst outcome of an imperfect brew is still beer. If it happens to be undrinkable beer (which doesn't seem to be the case here) then the worst that can happen is that you have to brew again. I can't see the negative! Drink up, have fun. Be a mad scientist if you want to be and enjoy the hobby.

If you do like the mad scientist approach, the books "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" and "How to Brew" are great resources for beginners who are looking to create their own thing. I also recommend getting yourself a copy of a style guide which really comes in handy for us newbies (like myself) who like to tinker - it helps to keep things from going too crazy.

Enjoy your creation. Let us know what's in line for batch #2

 

[brewit2it]

My intent was not to boost the gravity to have a higher alcohol level or to get a stronger beer i simply wanted more flavor. i also didn't wing it an just decide to add 3 lbs of dme to the beer. and in my opinion you say stick to the coopers recipe which is just to add sugar well i have had that before and i think it tastes nasty... so i did do some research and search these forums and i even made a post before i started to brew on recommendations of what to do with coopers canned kits. and the general consensus that i got was that a lot of people added 3lbs of dme, so that's what i decided to try....

Exactly, the Coopers kits TELLS YOU TO ADD MORE SUGAR so he was following the directions but improved it by using malt extract (which they also suggest as an alternative to simple sugar) since he already tried just adding sugar and didn't like the outcome (tasted like ass). I guess you guys thought the 3 lb can of LME was intended to make 5 gallons of 2% ABV beer:cross:

Basically you did most things right. What I would do is let the beer age a bit longer since it still seems a bit under carbed. If after a couple more weeks it is still too sweet to enjoy try mixing it with store bought beer or save it and mix it with a hoppier homebrew.

If you make this recipe again try adding some extra bittering hops as already mentioned and if you like more hop aroma and taste add some at the end of the boil as well. I would also probably try some different dry yeast in the next batch like Nottingham ale yeast or Safeale US-05 or 04.

Good luck!!