First batch down the f'in drain...

[jfr1111]

It was not some homeless guy who was desperate for a buzz. The guy was selling it and people were buying it (myself included, since I sampled it). I might still have the picture of the guy laughing at the face I made when I took my first sip.

 

[jbrookeiv]

So there is a definite consensus that this is dead, correct? I'm going to dump it tonight and order another cheap kit from AHS.

 

[Indyking]

So there is a definite consensus that this is dead, correct? I'm going to dump it tonight and order another cheap kit from AHS.

Some worts have strong smells but it should be tolerable or even pleasant for some. In your case though, it seems that your wort is putrefied as it appears to have a foul smell from your description. Some bacteria do produce strong sulfur odors. If you drink this thing to test it, you may end up in the ER depending on the concentration of bacteria. Trash it before you get a ruined bucket. I'm afraid you will need to do several rounds of washing and sanitizing in your contaminated bucket before your next brew to render it useful.

 

[akthor]

Apfelwein smells like elephant farts for quite awhile, stunk up my whole basement.

 

[jbrookeiv]

Some worts have strong smells but it should be tolerable or even pleasant for some. In your case though, it seems that your wort is putrefied as it appears to have a foul smell from your description. Some bacteria do produce strong sulfur odors. If you drink this thing to test it, you may end up in the ER depending on the concentration of bacteria. Trash it before you get a ruined bucket. I'm afraid you will need to do several rounds of washing and sanitizing in your contaminated bucket before your next brew to render it useful.

I will definitely be cleaning the **** out of it. Unfortunately, this is my bottling bucket. I only have two buckets, and was using this as primary, transferring to my other for secondary, and then back to this one for final bottling.

 

[akthor]

Yeah just saw the pictures, maybe with no sanitzer???

Also I read on here to many people are "cracking open" their buckets to look. It's my understanding that this could introduce "nasties" and cause bad stuff to happen. If you don't have the patience to just leave it alone people should get clear fermenters

 

[jbrookeiv]

Yeah just saw the pictures, maybe with no sanitzer???

Also I read on here to many people are "cracking open" their buckets to look. It's my understanding that this could introduce "nasties" and cause bad stuff to happen. If you don't have the patience to just leave it alone people should get clear fermenters

Yea, the reason I cracked it was to take a gravity reading, I wanted to know whether fermentation had in fact started. I know to just let it sit normally, but no airlock activity after 80hrs had me worried, and for good reason evidentially.

Think I'll order the RyePA kit from Northern Brewer today.

 

[devilishprune]

I don't know who these other guys are kidding, there is no amount of money you could pay me drink that.

It looks like a sewer backed up in to your bucket, and then someone poured egg drop soup in it.

 

[Justibone]

Your stomach acid would kill most bacteria. There are very few that can actually hurt you from eating or drinking them... however the products they produce (toxins, chemicals, etc.) can hurt you. So, if you don't want to taste it, then don't.

Two things got ya here: lack of sanitizer and lack of yeast "take off". If the yeast colony had gotten going nice and good, they could have kept the bacteria in check, potentially. The beer might have had an "off" taste, but it would have been drinkable.

Sorry 'bout your beer.

 

[Indyking]

Your stomach acid would kill most bacteria. There are very few that can actually hurt you from eating or drinking them... however the products they produce (toxins, chemicals, etc.) can hurt you. So, if you don't want to taste it, then don't.

Two things got ya here: lack of sanitizer and lack of yeast "take off". If the yeast colony had gotten going nice and good, they could have kept the bacteria in check, potentially. The beer might have had an "off" taste, but it would have been drinkable.

Sorry 'bout your beer.

I agree 100% with your 2nd paragraph, but not with the first one, sorry. The OP has essentially a bacterial culture in this bucket. Pathogenic bacteria like E coli, Salmonella, or others could potentially have grown there and they will give you a heck of gastroenteritis despite of your stomach acids. Food poisoning form bacterial infections affects hundreds of people every day! We don’t want homebrews to end up on the CDC statistics, do we?

 

[Valcarde]

Your stomach acid would kill most bacteria. There are very few that can actually hurt you from eating or drinking them... however the products they produce (toxins, chemicals, etc.) can hurt you. So, if you don't want to taste it, then don't.

Two things got ya here: lack of sanitizer and lack of yeast "take off". If the yeast colony had gotten going nice and good, they could have kept the bacteria in check, potentially. The beer might have had an "off" taste, but it would have been drinkable.

Sorry 'bout your beer.

I was going to make a smarmy remark about 'Botulism says hi', but after taking a moment to actually look up botulism, it's not the Clostridium botulinum (hurr, my big werd fer th'dai) that causes Botulism, but the products it makes during anaerobic conditions.

 

[Justibone]

Pathogenic bacteria like E coli, Salmonella, or others could potentially have grown there and they will give you a heck of gastroenteritis despite of your stomach acids.

Compared to the literally millions of species and subspecies of bacteria that can potentially grow in a carbohydrate rich and antibiotic-free culture, the likelihood of these particular pathogenic species taking hold is very small.

Additionally, most E. coli is actually harmless in food. Many people eat huge amounts of E. coli with their meals (b/c they don't wash their hands often enough), but unless it is capable of producing a toxin it is totally harmless.

http://www.about-ecoli.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O157:H7

Food poisoning form bacterial infections affects hundreds of people every day! We don’t want homebrews to end up on the CDC statistics, do we?

Most of the dangerous things that associate with grains would have died from the boiling (B. cereus, for example). That leaves the likely source of beer infection from boiled wort to be 1) some bug floating in the air that dropped in, or 2) a bug carried on his hands, or 3) a bug that lived in the bucket or cleanser he used.

I am NOT, NOT recommending that anyone drink infected beer, however, the LIKELIHOOD of harm resulting from doing so is very small. If harm is done, the most LIKELY explanation (as I said above) is not due to a colony establishing itself in your digestive tract, but rather from a toxin (such as shigella toxin) produced by bacteria, or from chemical byproducts (sulfites, etc).

If you get true food poisoning from a sip of infected beer, buy a lotto ticket that day, and make sure to stay inside if it starts to thunder.

FOOTNOTE: pregnant women should avoid any chance of food poisoning whatsoever, always.

 

[Justibone]

I was going to make a smarmy remark about 'Botulism says hi', but after taking a moment to actually look up botulism, it's not the Clostridium botulinum (hurr, my big werd fer th'dai) that causes Botulism, but the products it makes during anaerobic conditions.

Yes, botulism would be nasty-nasty.

Chances are small, though... and dose is important.

Still could happen.

 

[Indyking]

Compared to the literally millions of species and subspecies of bacteria that can potentially grow in a carbohydrate rich and antibiotic-free culture, the likelihood of these particular pathogenic species taking hold is very small.

Additionally, most E. coli is actually harmless in food. Many people eat huge amounts of E. coli with their meals (b/c they don't wash their hands often enough), but unless it is capable of producing a toxin it is totally harmless.

http://www.about-ecoli.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O157:H7



Most of the dangerous things that associate with grains would have died from the boiling (B. cereus, for example). That leaves the likely source of beer infection from boiled wort to be 1) some bug floating in the air that dropped in, or 2) a bug carried on his hands, or 3) a bug that lived in the bucket or cleanser he used.

I am NOT, NOT recommending that anyone drink infected beer, however, the LIKELIHOOD of harm resulting from doing so is very small. If harm is done, the most LIKELY explanation (as I said above) is not due to a colony establishing itself in your digestive tract, but rather from a toxin (such as shigella toxin) produced by bacteria, or from chemical byproducts (sulfites, etc).

If you get true food poisoning from a sip of infected beer, buy a lotto ticket that day, and make sure to stay inside if it starts to thunder.

FOOTNOTE: pregnant women should avoid any chance of food poisoning whatsoever, always.

We're going totally off-topic here, forgive me, but one cannot get bacterial toxins or other harmful products from them without having an active colony of bacteria producing them to begin with! What specifically will injury the GI tract is not the point! The point is... pathogenic bacteria can grow in contaminated wort and give you a bad enteritis, regardless of what means they use to overcomes your defenses. Just try it... trsut me, I have seen real examples of it more than once…

BTW, don’t rely on sites like wikipedia and about.com for your research… the info on them can be wrong and they have disclaimers for it!

 

[Justibone]

BTW, don’t rely on sites like wikipedia and about.com for your research… the info on them can be wrong and they have disclaimers for it!

Wikipedia was closer than my microbiology textbooks. *shrug*

If you re-read my post, I originally said he shouldn't drink it if he didn't want to.

My point is, strictly statistically speaking, infected wort is unlikely to be dangerous to imbibe. That said, I probably wouldn't drink it anyways.

 

[Indyking]

Wikipedia was closer than my microbiology textbooks. *shrug*

If you re-read my post, I originally said he shouldn't drink it if he didn't want to.

My point is, strictly statistically speaking, infected wort is unlikely to be dangerous to imbibe. That said, I probably wouldn't drink it anyways.

Fair enough... I wouldn't drink it either!

My wife is a PhD bacteriologist... I just got off the phone with her and asked what she thinks of drinking possibly contaminated wort... without a second of hesitation she answered "why don't you try it to find out" translating: not a got idea honey! Cheers...

 

[jbrookeiv]

Emailed Austin Homebrew Supply about the issue I had. I'm thinking my yeast arrived dead (even with a cold pack), and they agreed. They are sending out a replacement free of charge.

That is an AWESOME business move, and I will continue to support their company. This ****ty situation just turned out great.

 

[cheezydemon3]

ABSOLUTE WORST CASE.......

You re boil that phucker, cool it and pitch new yeast.

OR

pitch that....stuff that kills everything off in wine, wait, repitch.

That beer COULD be fine.

Oh yeah....get a turkey fryer....STATT!!!

 

[TenaciousJ]

we've got a saying back home....if it's brown drink it down. if it's black send it back


was the bucket used for anything (unrelated to brewing) before it was used as a fermentation bucket?

 

[jbrookeiv]

we've got a saying back home....if it's brown drink it down. if it's black send it back


was the bucket used for anything (unrelated to brewing) before it was used as a fermentation bucket?

Nope, bought it with a homebrewing kit.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I'm telling you, I have had brews at BOTTLING that smelled bad but were good.

NO WAY mold or anything else got that big a hold that fast.

That is probably just starting krausen.

 

[cimirie]

BTW, don’t rely on sites like wikipedia and about.com for your research… the info on them can be wrong and they have disclaimers for it!

Actually, a new extensive British study was recently released. It's findings were that Wikipedia articles were as accurate (if not more so) than Encyclopedia Brittanica. I know Brittanica isn't exactly a replacement for exhaustive texts, but for years it's accuracy is rarely - if ever - challenged. Wikipedia as become a legit source for pretty much anything these days.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

I have to say, when I first read this thread I had two thoughts-

1) Yeah, probably infected if it smells THAT bad
2) Everyone is going to say it is still good and to let it keep going

Seems to have been right! On this forum, as so many people post that they screwed up their beer when they really didn't that it is the quick reply to say that it is still good rather than botched. With a smell that bad though, I would reconsider. Sulfur? That is fine. Full case of rotting eggs and a fish with it? Nope.

Most important thing, to the original poster, is that you know what your issue was. I figure with a good sanitizer you will be fine for the next round!

Happy brewing!

 

[Indyking]

Actually, a new extensive British study was recently released. It's findings were that Wikipedia articles were as accurate (if not more so) than Encyclopedia Brittanica. I know Brittanica isn't exactly a replacement for exhaustive texts, but for years it's accuracy is rarely - if ever - challenged. Wikipedia as become a legit source for pretty much anything these days.

I do use wikipedia every once in a while. I'm just telling the facts. Basically anyone can write on wikipedia, provided references are given. Have you ever tracked down some of the references? They can be anything from nice published manuscripts in very reputable sources to notes in some unknown website. I think most of the refrences are not peer reviewed. Not that wikipedia try to fool us because the appropriate disclaimers are provided.

I'm not sure what the source of the study you're talking about was, but instead of relying on that, I prefer to just understand how it works and make my own judgment. Heck, there are books out there challenging how harmful smoking really is for human health!

 

[GoldMiner]

Taste it.

If it tastes bad , spit it out, use Listerine, then dump it.

Nobody said you had to drink it.

 

[cimirie]

disclaimers are provided.

I'm not sure what the source of the study you're talking about was, but instead of relying on that, I prefer to just understand how it works and make my own judgment. Heck, there are books out there challenging how harmful smoking really is for human health!

If you're interested, the article comes from the British journal, "Nature.". Nature is one the premiere research journals in the world. Contrary to the name, it's not really a nature journal. It's really a full service research journal.

And you're right that research often produces viewpoints that opposes the common viewpoint. My point was simply that universally, using Wikipedia as a reliable source for information is being accepted - even in the traditional very stringent academic communities. Discounting it simply because it comes from Wikipedia is just not any longer the smart choice. But as you said, check the citations.

 

[Andy_LV]

1. take a good swig of liquid courage.

2. taste it, spit it out, rinse with vodka for disinfection, then spit it out, then some more vodka, swirl and then swallow! repeat as needed until desired effect acquired.

but yea, just 3-4 days is WAY too soon for any bacteria to take a good hold in there - if might have smelled sour'ish, but nothing like that. It does look like lager yeast fermenting at high temps.

maybe you got lager yeast that ferments on bottom and produces almost no foam? and the rotten eggy smell might explain it if you have fermented at "ale" temps...

oh well.. I would still have tasted it.

 

[phatuna]

Emailed Austin Homebrew Supply about the issue I had. I'm thinking my yeast arrived dead (even with a cold pack), and they agreed. They are sending out a replacement free of charge.

That is an AWESOME business move, and I will continue to support their company. This ****ty situation just turned out great.

Jbrook, this was very nice of Austin. As mentioned before and I just want to make sure that this point gets across, your problems with this batch are 2fold:

1) sterilizing, I think you understand this
2) Liquid yeast should always be "started" prior to fermenting your wort.

Starting your yeast grows the cell count, the vial that you received from white labs or whatever has too low of a cell count to properly start fermenting quickly. check this to see how BIG of a starter you need for your gravity: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

search around the forums for yeast starter to figure out how to properly make them.

You also could rely on dry yeast so you don't have to go through this starting process..

 

[malkore]

I agree 100% with your 2nd paragraph, but not with the first one, sorry. The OP has essentially a bacterial culture in this bucket. Pathogenic bacteria like E coli, Salmonella, or others could potentially have grown there and they will give you a heck of gastroenteritis despite of your stomach acids. Food poisoning form bacterial infections affects hundreds of people every day! We don’t want homebrews to end up on the CDC statistics, do we?

Say it with me: there are no pathogens that exist in beer. Not E coli, not salmonella, not even botulism.

Taste it! Come on! I've drank Star-san in the name of science. I turned out fine!
:fro:

 

[phatuna]

I've drank Star-san in the name of science. I turned out fine!
:fro:

Are you sure about that?