First attempt at a sour

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Mike1234

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I love all the sours Ive tried, can't get too many locally, so I really want to learn how to brew these.
Ive done several extract kits with success. This will be my first BIAB.

This weekend I'm brewing an Irish Red, because my wife complains I never brew anything she likes.
Using more beer all grain kit.

Planning in putting 1 gal in a carlo rossi jug and keeping it standard irish red for her.
4 gallons will go into a carboy get pitched with Wyeast Roeselare and become my sour.
Should I adjust the recipe to get the sour right? (not worried about the red as much)
It said target 40 IBu's, i thought that was a little high for a sour.
I also have a Russian River Supplication bottle at my disposal. I've never harvested yeast from dregs before.
Was also thinking about adding cabernet soaked oak chips.

What temp should I mash?
What temp should I ferment?
How long should I leave in primary?
How long should I leave in secondary?
When should I add soaked oak chips?
What should I do with the russian river dregs?

Any other advice for first time at this style?
 
How long should I leave in primary?
How long should I leave in secondary?
When should I add soaked oak chips?
What should I do with the russian river dregs?

Any other advice for first time at this style?

Primary your beer for the same length you would any clean beer. If you're going to use Wyeast Roeselare yeast you should use it as your primary yeast strain (it has sacc in it). I'm not sure if you were planning on doing a combined primary then splitting the batch and adding the wild yeast, but if you use Roeselare only in the secondary you won't get as tart a flavor profile. Lacto and Pedio (souring bacteria) take between one year and 18 months to really kick in so to make a beer sour this way will take over a year of aging. However, the time is well spent!

In terms of oak, I use wooden dowels so I can remove if the flavor is getting too oaky. You can find threads on this forum about the amount of oak chips to use. I know to always err on the side of caution but they are a good substitute if you can't use a barrel.

Pitch the dregs when you pitch Roeselare. I know you can do it at any point in the aging process but right after you brew is the best time. Oldsock has a great blog site detailing his sour adventures, following his posts will educate you on sours (and make you want to brew dozens of them!). Here's his post on harvesting dregs - http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

Make sure you separate your plastic "sour" equipment or else your clean beers might get a bit funky!
 
Mike1234 said:
Thanks for the reply. Any input on mash/fermentation temp?

Fermenting relatively high will give the bugs plenty to munch on, but you don't won't to go so high as to make the Irish Red too sweet. Maybe something around 154 F?
 
Fermenting relatively high will give the bugs plenty to munch on, but you don't won't to go so high as to make the Irish Red too sweet. Maybe something around 154 F?

Agreed. I've always stuck to the 150-154 range but I do partial mashes. When you transfer to the secondary take some of the yeast cake with you. Brett will feed on the sacc by products in the cake.
 
jrfehon said:
Agreed. I've always stuck to the 150-154 range but I do partial mashes. When you transfer to the secondary take some of the yeast cake with you. Brett will feed on the sacc by products in the cake.

I don't transfer to secondary with wilds.
 
40 ibu's is way too high for a sour. that level of bitterness will inhibit the lacto. you should consider aiming for at most 15 ibu's.
 
40 ibu's is way too high for a sour. that level of bitterness will inhibit the lacto. you should consider aiming for at most 15 ibu's.

I can't say 15 will be a problem, but general guidance is lower than that. I never go over 10, and try and stay much lower, so I have no experience.
 
When you transfer to the secondary take some of the yeast cake with you. Brett will feed on the sacc by products in the cake.

If I'm taking sediment from the bottom of the primary, is there a reason to use a secondary, as apposed to letting it age in the primary?
 
If I'm taking sediment from the bottom of the primary, is there a reason to use a secondary, as apposed to letting it age in the primary?

I tend to use plastic bottling buckets for primary fermentation, which are too permeable to oxygen for long term aging. I know the tradition for Flemish reds and browns is to either rerack into oak barrels or into stainless steel vats after primary fermentation. Lambics traditionally don't go through a secondary. Lots of people don't rerack for any sours but the exact reason I'm not exactly sure.
 
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