First all grain SMaSH attempt

[this_is_my_username]

Hi all!

I've decided to try my hand at brewing a beer. I've done ciders before, so I have the sanitation aspect down and I've done a couple whiskeys so I have the mashing process down. Now it's time to combine the two.

What started this plan is an article I read on brewing in the 1200's. I started out wanting to make something more historically accurate (thus a single darker malt) and have made some concessions (using hops instead of doing a gruit).

I'm looking to make a dark strong ale/stout. I have a recipe planned that I think you're all going to tear apart as just awful, so here it goes.

5 gallon water
12 lbs Blackswaen coffee malt
aphla and beta amalayse (liquid enzymes to "cheat" since I suspect coffee malt won't convert)
1 lb honey (maybe, depending on OG after mash)
4 oz Yakima Chief East kent Golding hops
Mangrove Jack's Craft Series Yeast M42 New World Strong Ale

If I assume a mash efficiency of 70% (historical average) I should end up at 1.071 OG without honey which will translate to ~8% at 1.01 FG

The plan is as follows.

1. Lazy mash (boil water, add to drink cooler, add malt, add alpha and beta amylase at correct temp ranges)
2. drain into boiler, lauter, take OG and calculate honey required to bump OG (if any)
3. add hops and boil wort for 60 min
4. cool, add to carboy and pitch yeast
5. Ferment out and transfer off yeast cake to secondary
6. bulk age ~2 months
7. add honey and bottle for conditioning

So, I have some questions for you and please, any and all criticism of this plan is welcome and appreciated.

With whiskey I ferment on grain and get about 4.5 gallons out of a 5 gallon batch. I assume with a mash/drain/lauter I'll end up closer to 5-5.5 gallons of wort pre-boil, right?
I am aiming to reduce the wort to 4.25 gallons to get to the 1.071 OG, that may take a lot of boiling
Is my hop selection, quantity, and boil time ok? Like, am I in the ballpark with just one hop addition at the beginning?
Is all coffee malt going to be gross?
Bulk age in secondary a good idea?

Anything you want to just tear into before a make a bunch of (potentially awful) beer?

Thanks guys!

 

[fluketamer]

i have never heard of using all coffee malt as a base malt to make beer .

why not first make traditional beer. then see if you can make or want to make historical beer,

and i would start with like a gallon first. you wouldnt want 5 gallons of bad beer.

experiment with small batch brewing if you are going to try to do something new and different.

theres a reason homebrewers have been using traditional base malts for so long.

i would definately start small at least.

my 2 cents

 

[tracer bullet]

Agree to all the above.

For hops, even 4 packs EKG might not be enough for 1.071 beer. EKG is low on alpha acid. It might be OK but I'd run it through an IBU calculator first to be sure.

Also check a calculator for water volume needed. It is possible that your mash could yield something that gives you 1.071 after just 1 hour of boil (might start at around, I don't know, low to mid 1.06X's, just a guess).

You can go up to a month comfortably on the original yeast cake and then bottle it. Honey could work to give the sugar to carbonate in the bottle but be very sure to check a calculator for that as well. If in doubt just use corn starch since it's so well known and maybe leave that honey to be put into the boil kettle instead.

Not sold on 100% coffee malt. Who knows, it could be great, but eeks. Even 25% of that with some 2 row might be considered a ton. 10% kind of feels like a lot. The more I think about it I just don't think 100% is even worth trying.

 

[this_is_my_username]

i have never heard of using all coffee malt as a base malt to make beer .

why not first make traditional beer. then see if you can make or want to make historical beer,

and i would start with like a gallon first. you wouldnt want 5 gallons of bad beer.

experiment with small batch brewing if you are going to try to do something new and different.

theres a reason homebrewers have been using traditional base malts for so long.

i would definately start small at least.

my 2 cents

I think you make a good point on starting small. I can whip up a gallon of the stuff on the stovetop. I do believe one of the reasons to use a traditional base malt is that they will actually convert starch to sugar, coffee malt may be too roasted for that to work.

 

[this_is_my_username]

Agree to all the above.

For hops, even 4 packs EKG might not be enough for 1.071 beer. EKG is low on alpha acid. It might be OK but I'd run it through an IBU calculator first to be sure.

Also check a calculator for water volume needed. It is possible that your mash could yield something that gives you 1.071 after just 1 hour of boil (might start at around, I don't know, low to mid 1.06X's, just a guess).

You can go up to a month comfortably on the original yeast cake and then bottle it. Honey could work to give the sugar to carbonate in the bottle but be very sure to check a calculator for that as well. If in doubt just use corn starch since it's so well known and maybe leave that honey to be put into the boil kettle instead.

Not sold on 100% coffee malt. Who knows, it could be great, but eeks. Even 25% of that with some 2 row might be considered a ton. 10% kind of feels like a lot. The more I think about it I just don't think 100% is even worth trying.

I have a Rager IBU of 113 and a Tinseth IBU of 77.4 according to hopsteiner. (IDK what the difference between those two is)

The 1.071 is based on efficiency and volume losses from whiskey mashes, so I think I can hit it.

Honey would be a first for priming sugar for me, I have primarily used tablets for cider in the past so checking with a calculator is a good idea.

Finally, I think I have some 2 row laying around. Maybe I can make like four 1-gallon batches. Maybe a 10%, 25%, 50%, 100%. Then I can see how bad of an idea this really is.

 

[scrap iron]

I would just drink some coffee while making something that will convert. At 190 L it is just basically a light chocolate malt and my not have much to convert. You need to do some reading and find a site that has recipe a calculator that will show the diastatic power of different malts. I suggest Brewer's Friend, they show total diastatic power of the amount of all malts used in the recipe.

 

[this_is_my_username]

I would just drink some coffee while making something that will convert. At 190 L it is just basically a light chocolate malt and my not have much to convert. You need to do some reading and find a site that has recipe a calculator that will show the diastatic power of different malts. I suggest Brewer's Friend, they show total diastatic power of the amount of all malts used in the recipe.

Oh I know it won't convert well, hence the liquid enzymes. The enzymes work well for mash bills of completely unmalted grain, although it does feel like cheating a bit.

 

[MaxStout]

i have never heard of using all coffee malt as a base malt to make beer .

why not first make traditional beer. then see if you can make or want to make historical beer,

and i would start with like a gallon first. you wouldnt want 5 gallons of bad beer.

experiment with small batch brewing if you are going to try to do something new and different.

theres a reason homebrewers have been using traditional base malts for so long.

i would definately start small at least.

my 2 cents

Concur.

While your recipe sounds interesting and unique, you're kind of jumping into the deep end of the pool for a first time brew. Keep it simple, perhaps do a SMaSH with a good base malt, build a foundation and decide where you want to go with the next one.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

12 lbs Blackswaen coffee malt

A big challenge with trying to recreate historical recipes is that the malts they had available do not exist today. You might be able to find a malt labeled Coffee Malt or Brown Malt, but it is likely to be very different than what was used to brew with 200+ years ago. Malts used to be much darker and often smokey due to the malting technology and knowledge, but they were able to retain some enzyme activity in those medium (by today's standard) malts. Those beers also likely had a mix of yeast strains, with some Brett and Bacteria character getting more pronounced if the beers were not consumed fresh.

Recreating historical beers is not something I have much interest or knowledge in, but have you looked through this? https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/ Ron Pattisons has books and articles about historic beers and I have heard him talk on a few podcasts.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'll be more blunt. This "beer" will be undrinkable. Coffee malt is a specialty punch up malt that should be limited to 10% of the grain bill. It's going to taste essentially like an ash tray. There are plenty of other interesting base malts to try this with.

 

[BigEd]

Oh I know it won't convert well, hence the liquid enzymes. The enzymes work well for mash bills of completely unmalted grain, although it does feel like cheating a bit.

The problem is not conversion per se it is that coffee malt has nothing in it to convert. It is a roasted malt and contains little to no convertible starch. Please do yourself and your beer a favor and do a little research. You need a base malt (pale, pilsner, Vienna, etc) to provide convertible starches for a mash. Consider buying and reading a basic book on brewing to give yourself a workable level of knowledge to get started. John Palmer's "How to Brew" is an excellent primer for homebrewing, explaining the process, ingredients, and methods.

 

[this_is_my_username]

I'll be more blunt. This "beer" will be undrinkable. Coffee malt is a specialty punch up malt that should be limited to 10% of the grain bill. It's going to taste essentially like an ash tray. There are plenty of other interesting base malts to try this with.

Do you have any suggestions for a better malt to try?

 

[this_is_my_username]

The problem is not conversion per se it is that coffee malt has nothing in it to convert. It is a roasted malt and contains little to no convertible starch. Please do yourself and your beer a favor and do a little research. You need a base malt (pale, pilsner, Vienna, etc) to provide convertible starches for a mash. Consider buying and reading a basic book on brewing to give yourself a workable level of knowledge to get started. John Palmer's "How to Brew" is an excellent primer for homebrewing, explaining the process, ingredients, and methods.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/fermentables/?sortby=ppgup has blackswaen listed at 36 PPG, is this incorrect? All of my reading and mashing up to this point has been whiskey focused but I have done 6 all grain mashes at this point

Edit: It appears you're right. The coffee malt will increase gravity but apparently will not convert to fermentable sugar even with my cheater enzymes according to homedistiller.org

Thank you for your input, you just saved me quite a bit of wasted grain

 

[tracer bullet]

Primarily normal 2-row and then with some % coffee malt. Like I was saying, 25% if you want to go crazy, maybe more like 10% for something more normal. Perhaps 15%.

 

[this_is_my_username]

Primarily normal 2-row and then with some % coffee malt. Like I was saying, 25% if you want to go crazy, maybe more like 10% for something more normal. Perhaps 15%.

Alright, I supposed I'll use a normal base malt and try 10% coffee to see how it goes.

 

[MaxStout]

Do you have any suggestions for a better malt to try?

I doubt there's a "better malt," in the sense of using it for all or most of your mash bill. It's not about the malt choice, it's the amount used. That coffee malt would add nice, roasty notes--in very small amounts. Used sparingly, it would be great. How about doing a two malt beer? Say, 95% base malt and 5% coffee malt. That way, you can appreciate what the dark malt brings to the beer--within its recommended usage range--without other variables. Start out light with the coffee malt the first time, then see if the next beer needs a little more.

Making a SMaSH with a roast malt is forcing it to do something it won't do, added enzymes notwithstanding. You'll end up with a drain pour.

 

[this_is_my_username]

I doubt there's a "better malt," in the sense of using it for all or most of your mash bill. It's not about the malt choice, it's the amount used. That coffee malt would add nice, roasty notes--in very small amounts. Used sparingly, it would be great. How about doing a two malt beer? Say, 95% base malt and 5% coffee malt. That way, you can appreciate what the dark malt brings to the beer--within its recommended usage range--without other variables. Start out light with the coffee malt the first time, then see if the next beer needs a little more.

Making a SMaSH with a roast malt is forcing it to do something it won't do, added enzymes notwithstanding. You'll end up with a drain pour.

Well I'm glad I came here to ask before making a drain pour. I'll go with a two malt beer. Thank you for your help.

 

[MaxStout]

Keep us posted on how it works out.

 

[this_is_my_username]

Keep us posted on how it works out.

I'll make sure to update this thread as it goes!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Simpsons Imperial might do it.

 

[BigEd]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/fermentables/?sortby=ppgup has blackswaen listed at 36 PPG, is this incorrect? All of my reading and mashing up to this point has been whiskey focused but I have done 6 all grain mashes at this point

Edit: It appears you're right. The coffee malt will increase gravity but apparently will not convert to fermentable sugar even with my cheater enzymes according to homedistiller.org

Thank you for your input, you just saved me quite a bit of wasted grain

That 36ppg is likely a misprint or editing error. After you've read John Palmer's book you'll be able to spot errors like that.

 

[hotbeer]

I prefer my SMaSH beers to just a somewhat light ale. Partly because to me one of the purposes of the SMaSH beer is to let you see what a particular hop gives as flavor and aroma notes. Rhar 2 Row or Rhar Standard Pale is what I use. But most any base malt is fine, pale, pilsner or whatever.

When building a recipe, take a look at what the maltster says for the malts you are wanting to use. They have recommendations usually for how to use it and how much.

https://theswaen.com/products/malt-for-beer/black-swaen/black-swaen-coffee/

Up to 10% of your fermentable bill is all they recommend. When you go over the recommendations, you really need step back and think why you want to do that.

If you wish to do a beer to experience the malt so you can see what it gives, then my recommendation will be to do a very neutral base malt with the percentage recommended for whatever malt it is you wish to taste. And use a bittering hop that has little flavor/aroma notes in the first part of the boil.

It won't be a true SMaSH, but it'll serve the purpose. Maybe just say the SM is for Specialty Malt.

If you really want to taste that specialty malt in it's full strength version, then consider just a one gallon batch.

 

[DBhomebrew]

That 36ppg is likely a misprint or editing error. After you've read John Palmer's book you'll be able to spot errors like that.

36ppg wouldn't be far off from the 77% extract potential published by Swaen.

 

[G_robertus]

That 36ppg is likely a misprint or editing error. After you've read John Palmer's book you'll be able to spot errors like that.

Why incorrect? I've used this malt very often and this seems an accurate yield.

I doubt it will ferment as much as a regular base malt, but you'll probably get something. If I were to hazard a guess somewhere between 30-50%. I think you'll get closer by using modern brown malt. That can be used up to 30% or perhaps more. It'll ferment a lot better as well, though I can't say anything on whether it will be palatable. More so than coffee/pale chocolate I'd say. I would look into Mild Malt and perhaps add a bunch of brown malt to emulate old recipes. Swaen Brown Porter might also be interesting as it's not drum roasted and does not resemble any modern malt. I don't know how well it will ferment though.

 

[Willy]

I would suggest - pale ale, two row or Marris Otter as your 90% base malt.

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

Since you seem to be willing to take risks, why not make your own diastatic brown malt...
https://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2015/02/making-diastatic-brown-malt.html

 

[redrocker652002]

I don't know much about coffee malt or anything like that. But, if you go to Morebeer, they have a bunch of single hop beers that I have done and they have come out good. Simple grain bill of 2 row and Crystal 15. Single hop 1/2 oz bittering, I used Magnum, and 2oz at 10 mins and 2oz at 5 min and throw in another 2oz at flame out. I dry hop with another 2oz after fermentation is done for about 3 to 4 days. The 2oz at flame out I added just to see what happens. Maybe you can add the coffee malt as a small addition, not sure, but this is a good single hop recipe that I have used with a few different hops and it has worked well.

 

[mashdar]

If you want a dark base malt for a smash, a ~10-12L Munich malt will self convert if you treat it right. It won't look super dark, but it'll have a bunch of character.

I love the 8L Barke Munich by Weyermann. It's not carried by everyone, but brewhardware.com (owned and operated by Bobby_M above) has it.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/munichbarke_lb.htm
If you buy a little and taste it you'll see what I mean.

Also, a munich dunkel might be up your alley if you have fermentation temperature control.

 

[this_is_my_username]

Since you seem to be willing to take risks, why not make your own diastatic brown malt...
https://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2015/02/making-diastatic-brown-malt.html

Thank you! This is the kind of thing I had in mind when I thought of using just the Blackswaen coffee malt! I think I'll give this a go after I have a batch or two under my belt.

 

[this_is_my_username]

I just got the coffee malt in the mail and it is waaay darker than I expected. I doubt I would've made this original plan if I had seen it beforehand. Thank you all, it has become evident that you were right about doing a SMaSH with only coffee malt.

After doing some reading over the weekend I have a new recipe planned that I'm calling the SMaSH Failure Stout

5 lb Briess 2-row brewers malt 1.8L
5 lb Briess Aromatic Munich Malt 20L
3 lb Rolled Oats
1.5 lb Blackswaen Coffee malt 220L

Gonna target 152 F for mash temp

Planning on 1.75 oz East Kent Golding hop pellets, boiled for 60 minutes.

Ferment in the basement at 61 F with Mangrove Jack M42 yeast, maybe wrap the fermenter in a blanket if needed.

Hoping to yield a malty, toasty dark brew.

The actual brew day probably won't happen until next weekend but I'm very excited to give it a try.