English Barleywine Fireside Barleywine

[jwbeard]

I found this thread while looking into a recipe for my first barleywine... In a potential lapse of common sense, I scaled the recipe back up to 5 gallons from the 4 the recipe calls for — more beer is better, right?

I'm now realizing that the "missing" gallon of room in the carboy may be needed for the extra-excited fermentation caused by the high OG, and that my little blowoff tube may not be able to handle the reaction from a 1.100 OG beer. Should I expect an insane fermentation such that I shouldnt pitch 5 gallons into a 6.5 gallon carboy? I think I have two 5 gallon carboys I may be able to split it into, or split it into a 3 gallon and a 6.5 gallon...

Any words of wisdom? Thanks!

 

[Echoloc8]

Splitting the batch between two vessels is a very good idea; I've done it several times.

You might also look into Fermcap or a similar product for future batches. For many yeasts it can make a dramatic difference reducing kraeusen height.

-Rich

 

[shanewheel]

This may be a rookie question, but I don't see how he hits 104 IBUs with the hops listed in the recipe. I'm thinking more like 30-40? Or am I missing something?

 

[shanewheel]

This may be a rookie question, but I don't see how he hits 104 IBUs with the hops listed in the recipe. I'm thinking more like 30-40? Or am I missing something?

Never mind. I figured out what I was screwing up in Beersmith.

 

[DSmith]

I'm brewing this recipe in a few days. The changes I've made are listed below, which I think maintain the original intent of the recipe:

Wyeast 1028 London ale with a starter per Mr. Malty (familiar English yeast that attenuates well)
Corn sugar instead of table sugar (adjusted the amount by assuming corn sugar is 42 pppg vs 46 pppg for table sugar)
Scaled malts for 65% mash efficiency, water volumes for 90 minute boil
Horizon bittering hop

 

[KingBrianI]

I'm brewing this recipe in a few days. The changes I've made are listed below, which I think maintain the original intent of the recipe:

Wyeast 1028 London ale with a starter per Mr. Malty (familiar English yeast that attenuates well)
Corn sugar instead of table sugar (adjusted the amount by assuming corn sugar is 42 pppg vs 46 pppg for table sugar)
Scaled malts for 65% mash efficiency, water volumes for 90 minute boil
Horizon bittering hop

Sounds like it will make a great beer!

 

[DSmith]

This beer is fermenting at 67F (temperature control chest freezer). I scaled the recipe for 65% mash efficiency and got 72% (double batch sparge). I cut back on the corn sugar to give 8 gravity points instead of 12 per the recipe and the OG came in at 1.097.

I mashed at 152F for 90 min, checked conversion with an iodine starch test, and measured the mash pH (room temperature) at 5.45. I'll post back when I know the final gravity using Wyeast 1028. It's going to be a long time to get to try this one.

[Edit] Final gravity is 1.017

 

[thadius856]

Adjusted for my equipment, 10.5 gal batch size, the AA of the hops in my freezer (Ted Hausotter @ Hop Heaven), left coast malts (Country Maltster Group, notably Great Western, Best Malz and Briess). Never brewed anything quite this large, so I've estimated mash efficiency on this one at 70% (I'm typically 84-86% at 1.060 and below, 80% at 1.070).

Anyhow, here's how it looks on my end of the country:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fireside Barleywine - 2013.12.01
Brewer: Thadius Miller
Asst Brewer: Pops
Style: American Barleywine
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.12 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.02 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.097 SG
Estimated Color: 16.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 104.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.8 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs 8.5 oz Pale Ale Malt, Northwestern (Great Weste Grain 1 54.6 %
6 lbs 13.5 oz Rausch (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 18.2 %
4 lbs 9.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 12.1 %
1 lbs 1.8 oz Crystal 60, 2-Row, (Great Western) (60.0 Grain 4 3.0 %
8.9 oz Crystal 120, 2-Row, (Great Western) (120 Grain 5 1.5 %
8.9 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.5 %
3 lbs 6.7 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 7 9.1 %
3.85 oz Newport [16.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 91.3 IBUs
1.92 oz Fuggles [5.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 8.8 IBUs
1.92 oz Fuggles [5.20 %] - Boil 7.0 min Hop 10 3.9 IBUs
4.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 37 lbs 9.4 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 43.21 qt of water at 166.2 F 150.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, , 7.55gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grains are milled and strike water is passing 140F. Having to add a third pot for strike the first time, as my current setup is limited to 38 qt (2x 5 gal Polarware pots on an NG range) and mash-in is over 42 qt.

Edit: Mashed in. The mash comes within 2" of the rim of my 70 qt tun. Wow! Had to stir it up pretty slowly to avoid splashing.

 

[brett1341]

I don't have beersmith, so any chance of someone converting this for a 1 gallon batch?

 

[Ply318ci]

I don't have access to beersmith right now but if you divide everything by how ever big the batch size is (like the 11 gallon recipe just above just divide everything by 11) that works. That is how I used to do it for all of my 1 gallon batches. Worked really good. Obviously you need to factor your efficiency and go from there.



This is a PM version I was playing with just sub out the Light DME with about 1.5 lbs of 2 row. Then add 4oz of sugar.

 

[DSmith]

When I used ProMash I found the recipe to be 57% mash efficiency. I scaled to 65%. You can multiply each grain by 57/65 [or any other higher efficiency] to decrease the amounts for higher efficiency. Also scale grain sugar & hops linearly for the batch size difference.

I'm about 6 weeks into the secondary and can't wait to bottle this in the new year.

 

[thadius856]

When I used ProMash I found the recipe to be 57% mash efficiency. I scaled to 65%. You can multiply each grain by 57/65 to decrease the amounts for higher efficiency. Also scale grain sugar & hops linearly for the batch size difference.

I'm about 6 weeks into the secondary and can't wait to bottle this in the new year.

I aimed for 70.2% mash efficiency. Landed at 68.7%. Close enough.

However, I anticipated coming out with 14.2 gallons (cutting it close on the BK), but actually ended up with 15.2 gallons by the time it expanded at boil temp.

Was a pretty scary proposition in a keggle. Lost about a tenth of a gallon to boilover and the protein break baked on, creating a huge mess.

At 170F or so:

At 210F:

Somehow my boiloff rate got jacked way up in BeerSmith from the actual 1.4 gal/hr to 1.85 gal/hr. That's why I had all the extra liquid. Thus, the 120 minute boil turned into a little over a 180 minute boil. All hops additions were pushed back, of course.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

I'm hoping to brew this on Sunday, but a quick question first.

I'm new to Strong Ales/Barleywines and I'm not sure how much krausen to expect. Would a 4 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy be a bit extreme or am I safer going straight to a bucket?

 

[KingBrianI]

I'm hoping to brew this on Sunday, but a quick question first.

I'm new to Strong Ales/Barleywines and I'm not sure how much krausen to expect. Would a 4 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy be a bit extreme or am I safer going straight to a bucket?

If it were me, I'd use a bucket. 1 gallon of headspace isn't really enough for a beer this big, especially if you aren't going to ferment at the lower end of your yeast's range.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Would it be a good idea to put it in a bucket first then after a few months rack to a secondary carboy?

 

[KingBrianI]

Would it be a good idea to put it in a bucket first then after a few months rack to a secondary carboy?

Yep, though theres no need to wait months. 2-4 weeks would be fine for primary.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Beautiful, thank you sir!

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

One more question. I brewed this on 12/22.
Would I be better off racking my 4 gallon batch into a 5 gallon carboy or just letting it go as is in the primary for another month before bottling? The recipe calls for a secondary but I'm worried 4 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy might be too much headspace.

 

[DSmith]

I bottled my batch that I brewed per post #35 (Wyeast 1028, Corn Sugar) after 2 months in secondary. It's a very smooth beer already for being 10.5% ABV. The smoke flavor is distinct, along with fruity contributions from the dark crystal malts.


[EDIT] Picture of carbonated beer added

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

One more question. I brewed this on 12/22.
Would I be better off racking my 4 gallon batch into a 5 gallon carboy or just letting it go as is in the primary for another month before bottling? The recipe calls for a secondary but I'm worried 4 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy might be too much headspace.

Bump. Been in the primary a month now, concerned about headspace in a 5 gallon secondary. Better to keep it in a bucket for another month or rack to secondary?

 

[DSmith]

Bump. Been in the primary a month now, concerned about headspace in a 5 gallon secondary. Better to keep it in a bucket for another month or rack to secondary?

I'd let it go to 6-8 weeks in the primary and bottle and plan to age it.

Another option is to fill a 3 gallon carboy for a secondary (mine are more like 3.25 gallons) and somehow bottle the rest. It's good to plan around filling the secondary with a little extra to spare when recipe planning if that step is used.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Thanks DSmith.
That's sort of what I was leaning towards. It's in a 5 gallon (really closer to 6) bucket now but since I haven't peeked at it I assume it's still a mostly C02 environment in there. If I were to rack into a 5 gallon carboy...not so much.

My plan was to bottle this when it's ready then age until fall/christmas time...we'll see if I've got the patience

 

[MrTheKing]

Brewed this today, used 3# smoked cherrywood malt and I was super nervous at mash out at how intensely smokey it was. But nearing the end of the boil now things have calmed down substantially and now I'm really looking forward to see how this turns out. Preboil 7gal 1.065, it's down to 5 gallons with 15 mins left. I added 10oz sugar and 8oz light dme since that's all I had around, and subbed nugget for the 60 min addition


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[MrTheKing]

1.096 og, 1.016 fg for 10.5 abv after a week, the yeast took off like a rocket. Gonna get another week in primary, then transfer to a keg to secondary until the winter. Sample was super boozy as expected but the smoked cherrywood seemed nice.


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[AnonyBrew]

Have any updates on it?

1.096 og, 1.016 fg for 10.5 abv after a week, the yeast took off like a rocket. Gonna get another week in primary, then transfer to a keg to secondary until the winter. Sample was super boozy as expected but the smoked cherrywood seemed nice.


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[user 141939]

Does the beer end up being bitter at all? It just seems like kind of a lot of IBUs for a barleywine. Would it be ok I i backed it off to around 70 or 80 or would that make it too sweet?

 

[user 141939]

Just brewed this a few weeks ago. Got a little better efficiency than I expected so I dropped the sugar a to hit my OG (ended up with 1.098)

I also used demerera and light brown sugar instead of table. Ended up with 2.75 in fermentor but still pitched two nottingham packets. Hope I didn't over pitch too much. Primary ferment is over but I haven't pulled a sample. Just gonna wait til I transfer it to pull a sample.


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[MrTheKing]

Have any updates on it?

Tasted a sample recently and enjoyed it. A lot of the smokiness I was worried about has toned down quite a bit, thankfully. It's still sitting "secondary" in the keg, once some room in the kegerator opens up i'll carb it up then bottle it.

 

[user 141939]

So the beers has now been in the secondary for about 2 months. It went from 1.098 to 1.014 so an ABV of 11%. The booziness has mellowed a lot and I am ready to bottle. I'm trying to decide if I should add fresh yeast or just use the siphon to pull a small amount off the bottom before I bottle. Any suggestions?

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

If I could do my batch over again, I would definitely pitch fresh yeast. Mine never did carb up, even after adding a dropper full of slurry to each bottle after about 5 months in.