Feedback on my NEIPA with Kveik recipe

[GillesF]

Hi all

Since my last RIS failed today, I'm going to brew something else next weekend. I'm in the mood for someting blond and hoppy, so I was thinking of doing a NEIPA.
Below's the recipe for my NEIPA using Kveik yeast. Any feedback? Especially the water parameters, since I'm not sure which direction I should go with SO4 and Cl with this beer type.

Thanks all!

When Wilhelm Screams | IPA
New England IPA
7.0% / 16.1 °P
Recipe by
Gilles
All Grain

Grainfather - Micro -V2
63.8% efficiency
Batch Volume: 3.17 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 3.81 gal
Sparge Water: 1.68 gal
Total Water: 5.49 gal
Boil Volume: 4.83 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.066
Final Gravity: 1.013
IBU (Tinseth): 44
BU/GU: 0.67
Color: 3.9 SRM

Mash
Temperature — 152.6 °F — 45 min
Mash Out — 167 °F — 10 min

Malts (8 lb 14.8 oz)
7 lb 0.8 oz (75%) — Castle Malting Chateau Maris Otter — Grain — 2.1 °L
15 oz (10%) — The Swaen PlatinumSwaen Oat Flakes — Grain — 0 °L
15 oz (10%) — The Swaen PlatinumSwaen Wheat Flakes — Grain — 0 °L

Other (7.5 oz)
7.5 oz (5%) — Briess Rice Hulls — Adjunct — 0 °L

Hops (4.76 oz)
0.53 oz (5 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Boil — 5 min
0.53 oz (10 IBU) — El Dorado 11.6% — Boil — 5 min
0.53 oz (11 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Boil — 5 min
0.88 oz (4 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
0.88 oz (7 IBU) — El Dorado 11.6% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
0.88 oz (8 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
0.18 oz — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 3 days
0.18 oz — El Dorado 11.6% — Dry Hop — 3 days
0.18 oz — Mosaic 12.25% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 176 °F

Miscs
4 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
1.5 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.5 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
2.5 ml — Lactic Acid 80% — Mash
1 g — Yeast Nutrients (WLN1000) — Boil — 15 min

Yeast
1 pkg — White Labs WLP521 Hornindal Kveik Ale Yeast 82%

Fermentation
Primary — 89.6 °F — 4 days
Secondary — 77 °F — 7 days
Cold Crash — 39.2 °F — 2 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile
Ca2+ 70
Mg2+ 7
Na+ 8
Cl- 97
SO42- 69
HCO3- 16

 

[Gusso]

I can't comment on your water chemistry but I would up the dry hops to at least an ounce each.

 

[GillesF]

Hi Gusso

Forgot to mention that this NEIPA would be a bit less agressive on the hops because my girlfriend isn't fond of very hoppy beers. So let's say 75% hoppiness compared to a normal NEIPA. Would you still increase hops to 1 oz each?

 

[Dgallo]

For a 3 gallon batch, you’ll want atleast 6-8 oz of hops in your recipe. 3-4 oz hotside and a bit more in dryhop 4-5oz

Water Chem you’re low on Cl. You might wanna push your Cl number to a minimum of 150ppm

 

[GillesF]

Hi

I made some changes to the water and hop profile:

Ca2+ 105
Mg2+ 24
Na+ 8
Cl- 188
SO4- 95
HCO3- 16

Cl to SO4 ratio is now 2:1

This is the new hop profile, taking into account we prefer it less agressive

Hops (6.84 oz)

0.53 oz (5 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Boil — 5 min
0.53 oz (10 IBU) — El Dorado 11.6% — Boil — 5 min
0.53 oz (11 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Boil — 5 min

0.75 oz (3 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand at 176 °F
0.75 oz (6 IBU) — El Dorado 11.6% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand at 176 °F
0.75 oz (7 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand at 176 °F

1.5 oz — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 3 days
1.5 oz — El Dorado 11.6% — Dry Hop — 3 days
1.5 oz — Mosaic 12.25% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Regarding the hopstand: do I simply drop it in the kettle at 176 °F or do I need to stir it while doing the hopstand?
And when cooling down right after the hopstand: leave the hops in or remove them?

 

[Dgallo]

For the best extraction from your hops, you want to add them loose and with intermittent stirring. If your bagging them or using a hop spider or similar, you’ll want to stir it even more frequently. This will also help you create a cone of trub which will help you transfer clearer wort to you fv

 

[GillesF]

For the best extraction from your hops, you want to add them loose and with intermittent stirring. If your bagging them or using a hop spider or similar, you’ll want to stir it even more frequently. This will also help you create a cone of trub which will help you transfer clearer wort to you fv

Hi Dgallo, is it a good idea too add the outflow of the Grainfather wort pump inside the hop spider and let the wort flow through the hops and the spider back into the tun and then recirculate again? Or is that too much?

 

[GillesF]

Hi all

This beer is still in the fermenter right now and I'm planning on dry hopping tomorrow.

I tasted the beer, it's OK but it has a bit too much citrus/apple to my liking and not enough complexity in the hop profile. Is this because of the combination Hornindal Kveik + the hops? Should I change my dry hop additions, perhaps add more El Dorado and less Cascade + Mosaic?

Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

Hi all

This beer is still in the fermenter right now and I'm planning on dry hopping tomorrow.

I tasted the beer, it's OK but it has a bit too much citrus/apple to my liking and not enough complexity in the hop profile. Is this because of the combination Hornindal Kveik + the hops? Should I change my dry hop additions, perhaps add more El Dorado and less Cascade + Mosaic?

Thanks!

Def would see you getting some elevated citrus character from your hops, cascade tends to pull citrus notes out of other hops as well. Hornindal is known to give citrus/fruit esters. Also it’s an ipa, so to me it’s expected that you’d have a citrus forward beer.

That said, the Apple character could be Acetaldihyde from the yeast being stressed.

 

[GillesF]

Hi Dgallo

Thanks alot for the feedback!

Yes, I wanted citrus but in my opinion right now it's lacking complexity because the citrus is a bit overpowering. Perhaps I should completely drop Cascade for the dry hop and replace with the other two varieties?

Regarding the apple character: yes, I was afraid of that too. But I don't see how I could have stress the yeast except for 1 factor: I did not add oxygen because I thought stirring for 20 minutes and dumping in the fermenter would have added enough ... Or perhaps it's just the combination of the hops/esters from yeast +me not being used to it + green beer? We will know when it's ready I guess

 

[Dgallo]

Hi Dgallo

Thanks alot for the feedback!

Yes, I wanted citrus but in my opinion right now it's lacking complexity because the citrus is a bit overpowering. Perhaps I should completely drop Cascade for the dry hop and replace with the other two varieties?

Regarding the apple character: yes, I was afraid of that too. But I don't see how I could have stress the yeast except for 1 factor: I did not add oxygen because I thought stirring for 20 minutes and dumping in the fermenter would have added enough ... Or perhaps it's just the combination of the hops/esters from yeast +me not being used to it + green beer? We will know when it's ready I guess

keep us posted.

If your looking for more complexity next time layer some less fruit forward hops in like Columbus, strata, Bravo, chinook, etc.

 

[GillesF]

Hi all

Kegged today and poured the first one. Here's how it looks:

Although it's very early, here's my first feedback feedback.

Visual:

- Love the colour, the colour of Golden Promise really shines through here. Also, it has a nice haziness without the murkiness
- Not much head but that might be due to the carbonation not fully done. Persistent lacing

Aroma:

- I have to say that the strong "apple green" is almost completely gone now and replaced by citrus and some tropical fruits. Some herbs on the background but almost not recognizable
- No sulfur smell whatsoever, I picked this up during my first samples together with the apple green. My guess it was a by-product of fermentation?
- I do believe the hop aroma is not "in your face" enough for a NEIPA, it's quite "subdued"

Flavour & mouthfeel

- Some very slight apple green but almost not recognizable. Mainly citrus and some tropical fruits on the background
- Slightly bitter, based on the style the bitterness seems OK
- Overall hop flavour, just like aroma, is nice but a bit too subdued for the style
- Mouthfeel is quite dry, would prefer some more "bite" or fluffiness
- Malts are present (very far) in the background

Overall, I'm very pleased with the results and learned a lot while brewing this one! It's probably still too early but if I would brew this one again, I would change the following based on my feedback:

1) Change the yeast which ferments less dry +adds more fluffiness. Perhaps London Fog would be a better match for the beer I'm after
2) Keep the malts the same
3) Change hop combination: as Dgallo mentioned, substitute one of the hops that adds a lot of citrus by a hop which has a more herbal,/dank yet fruite character
4) Change hop quantities for stronger aroma and flavour but keep IBU the same

What do you guys think?

Meanwhile, cheers!

 

[WesBrew]

maybe add in some dex malt. finish around .015. could even add in some crystal 20 for sweetness or maybe even some honey malt.