Feed Your Yeast

[fossilcat]

I'm still new at this. I started about a year ago in the fall with a few of batches and only one came out good enough for me to share. So I read what I could on this forum, trying to separate what was relevant, and I did research on line. I was fortunate to save a few Hightest stickies before they disappeared. The more I learned, the more questions I have - seems like I have a million of them. But I'll only pose one for now.

I've been using Hightest's SNA scheme: A portion a inoculation, half that at active fermentation, approximately half again that at the midpoint. He sites Dr Clayton Cone: "the bulk of the nutrients be added before 30% sugar depletion - the yeast are usually well into their stationary phase at 50% sugar depletion and cannot use the nutrients as well as they can before 30% depletion." Result: 85% of the nutrients are given before the 1/3 sugar break.

I've just read Mead Making article on www.MoreWinemaking.com by Shea A.J. Comfort that recommends you wait until active fermentation commences (within approx. 24 hrs). He uses observation instead of gravity readings to determine active fermentation (I don't have a problem with this). He then recommends the 2nd and final feeding somewhere between the 1/3 and 1/2 sugar break, for a total of 2 feedings. I believe his rationale is sound: 1) Feeding during the lag between inoculation and start of fermentation may allow un-desirables (i.e. wild yeast - this is a non-pasteurized must) a foothold before the chosen yeast can build enough mass to begin fermentation; 2) Nutrients, especially DAP, may be too harsh and could damage the newly hydrated cell wall of the young yeast.

So, any thoughts? I really like the Hightest stuff - his information is very specific and backed up by reference. Yet that MoreWinemaking article makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I have been following Bray's method https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=429241 for my SNAs without issue and very quick active fermentations on several different meads/yeasts.

 

[Vex3521]

I use Bray's method also with no issues. Figure if it isn't broke I'm not fixing it lol will stick with this and then if I get a fail try a different route!

 

[fossilcat]

There are so many approaches to nutrient addition. I've always been one to "do my homework" before I start rather than just jump into it - I hate throwing stuff out or producing an inferior product when I could have simply followed a well worn path to an excellent result right off the bat. That being said, I realize mead making isn't that simple and experience (trial and error) is the best approach. But I want to learn while putting out a quality product rather than learn from colossal failures

I've considered Bray's method, but Bray's conflicts with standard practices proposed by a number of professional and scientific opinions. Even Scott Labs (they partner with Lallemand who puts out GoFerm, Fermaid, and a bunch of yeast like D47, 1116, 1118, etc), don't feed after the 1/3 sugar break.

For me, the "well warn path" does not include Bray's.

I think what I'll do is follow the amounts proposed by Hightest but feed as follows: 1st feeding at the first sign of fermentation; 2nd feeding at 30% fermentation; 3rd and final feeding just before 50% fermentation.

Any more input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys for replying.

 

[Frognostic]

Interesting to know.

Next mead I make I might wait until I hear it fizzing until I add the first nutrients.

 

[loveofrose]

Nutrients are a can of wormies. Everyone has strong opinions about the "best" way. In reality, as long as the mead is good, it's fine.

Signs of a good schedule are fast ferments (complete in 14 days or less) and no feeding DAP past 1/3 sugar break. My methods (I'm Bray), TOSNA, hightest, and several others are perfectly valid by these criteria.

Lallemand's suggestions are for wine, so they tend to be too low in nitrogen for mead.

Try several side by side and see which produces the best mead for your taste.

 

[fossilcat]

Nutrients are a can of wormies. Everyone has strong opinions about the "best" way. In reality, as long as the mead is good, it's fine.

Signs of a good schedule are fast ferments (complete in 14 days or less) and no feeding DAP past 1/3 sugar break. My methods (I'm Bray), TOSNA, hightest, and several others are perfectly valid by these criteria.

Lallemand's suggestions are for wine, so they tend to be too low in nitrogen for mead.

Try several side by side and see which produces the best mead for your taste.

You're right of course. You can mistreat the yeast pretty poorly and still come up with a descent brew. My first couple of batches I didn't use SNA, just threw all the nutrients in when I pitched, and the mead came out palatable. And I made a few other pretty bad mistakes too. Now that I've made some pretty good batches, I'm like "this tastes so good, if I fix everything I did wrong it'll be like nectar of the gods!" Hence, this thread post.

Lallemand is a distributer for Scott Lab products. The document I was referring to was the 2015 Fermentation Handbook by Scott Labs. It's basically a brochure about the yeasts they produce and how their chemicals enhance their use. Very in depth, explores all their yeast's characteristics, and scatters tasty scientific tidbits throughout, like:

pH: At pH 3 only 70% of ammonia can be utilized compared with >90% at pH 4. This can modify the handling of acidic whites or high pH reds.
Temperature: The warmer the temperature of the ferment, the more nitrogen is required as the cells are growing and metabolizing faster.
Oxygen availability: Yeast available O2 results in faster nitrogen capture, therefore more YAN is required.
Nitrogen source: Nitrogen from amino acids is a more efficient form of nitrogen for cell metabolism and aromatic production than straight ammonia (DAP) or glutamate.

While their references are in context of wine, yeast requirements and behavior are the same whether it lives in wine or mead.

It's where I learned how to properly hydrate with GoFerm. It's a good document, you should check it out.

 

[loveofrose]

While their references are in context of wine, yeast requirements and behavior are the same whether it lives in wine or mead.

This is where you couldn't be more wrong. Yeast behave completely different in mead versus wine versus beer. I have countless yeast experiments and experiences to back this up.

For instance, Wyeast 1388 yeast in beer is a phenolic Ester producer. In mead, it is completely clean. Neutral in fact.

In addition, nutrient requirements in mead are very different. Wine and beer have a lot of nutrients naturally. Honey has very little. As a result, you need to supplement much, much more to avoid pissing the yeast off and making lots of fusels.

The pH is also an issue in mead because there is no buffering capacity. Not so in beer or wine.

Basically, the way I brew beer, wine, and mead is completely different. Until you wrap your head around that, you're in for a lot of issues.

I'm not trying to be a prick. I just want you to make damn good mead. I've got a decade of experience and mistakes to help you out. Just read everything here:
www.denardbrewing.com

 

[fossilcat]

You misunderstand what I meant. You have to create an environment in which the yeast thrive. Mead, wine, and beer all require different adjustments to create such an environment. The Scott Labs document illustrates what those environment requirements are. What my job is, is to adjust the mead to create an environment where the yeast will perform it's best.

Different pH and temperature levels yield different results with the same yeast. (K1 (V1116) temp range is 50 - 95 but at 61 it is a strong floral ester producer. I'm currently fermenting a pH adjusted cranberry mead with 1116, so we'll see).

In order to make the best mead possilble, I have to know the yeast first, and then I'll know how to make it happy. Yeast requires the same things to be happy whether it's in mead, wine, or beer.