Fantome new Road...

[stakem1]

Any idea if he is keeping some back for people who visit? Hoping to make it out there in May and this would be a great bottle to try!

no idea. and even if i had insider info, that could be no longer valid after 24 hours

lol

 

[iong516]

Lea's Journey sounds fun. Seeing it on shelves around, and I want to open one soon.

 

[ElkSherpa1]

For anyone who’s ever been to the brewery, mind sharing if you made any arrangements prior to going? Good chance I will be making a short day trip while visiting family this summer and I’d like to know how best to make the experience worthwhile.

Definitely make arrangements ahead of time. Contact Dany via facebook, or here.

 

[Competicity]

Just opened a best before ‘22 Saison. It’s a bit herbal, grassy bitterness, light apple pie spice thing, faint berry notes.

Another best by ‘22 bottle here. Similar notes. I’ll add that the carbonation is rather nicely restrained. I dig this beer in all its iterations.

Also many thanks to thrashD for the outline hookup!

 

[Evahflow]

Another best by ‘22 bottle here. Similar notes. I’ll add that the carbonation is rather nicely restrained. I dig this beer in all its iterations.

Also many thanks to thrashD for the outline hookup!

I think as long as some bugs/brett made it's way in this one will turn out nice. I'm just worried Fantome may be too clean lately and lacking whatever spirit made it's way in these beers.

 

[The Red Viper]

I think as long as some bugs/brett made it's way in this one will turn out nice. I'm just worried Fantome may be too clean lately and lacking whatever spirit made it's way in these beers.

I agree that most recent bottles have felt too clean. It’s like when Italian wine producers learned how to keep brett out of their wines and most people acted like that was a *good* thing...

I had a Noel the other night from the batch Etre sold as 2018 but bottle label says 2017. It was great—dry, wintry spice, wintry herb, gusher but great mouthfeel...surely this one has brett.

 

[stakem1]

I think as long as some bugs/brett made it's way in this one will turn out nice. I'm just worried Fantome may be too clean lately and lacking whatever spirit made it's way in these beers.

I raised this concern years ago when Dany mentioned acquiring new equipment to be more modern. It was the same time period he also mentioned getting an assistant to help him keep up with demand.

The unmistakeable “house” character that only emerges after several years in the bottle was always in my favorite ghost drinks. I dont think ive encountered it in any bottlings since the upgrade but maybe its still too soon to point blame.

If im not mistaken he has 3-4 different yeast selections he pulls from. I maintain hope and pray one of them still got the juice to set it loose.

 

[The Red Viper]

I raised this concern years ago when Dany mentioned acquiring new equipment to be more modern. It was the same time period he also mentioned getting an assistant to help him keep up with demand.

The unmistakeable “house” character that only emerges after several years in the bottle was always in my favorite ghost drinks. I dont think ive encountered it in any bottlings since the upgrade but maybe its still too soon to point blame.

If im not mistaken he has 3-4 different yeast selections he pulls from. I maintain hope and pray one of them still got the juice to set it loose.

Do you know when the first batches after the upgrade were so I can keep this in mind when opening bottles and testing theory?

 

[Evahflow]

I raised this concern years ago when Dany mentioned acquiring new equipment to be more modern. It was the same time period he also mentioned getting an assistant to help him keep up with demand.

The unmistakeable “house” character that only emerges after several years in the bottle was always in my favorite ghost drinks. I dont think ive encountered it in any bottlings since the upgrade but maybe its still too soon to point blame.

If im not mistaken he has 3-4 different yeast selections he pulls from. I maintain hope and pray one of them still got the juice to set it loose.

Wasn't there something about him getting a brewer from another brewery to help him once he got a his bigger system recently? I think that other assistant left. I know there are a few different yeast strains he uses but always thought the wild stuff in Fantome was just a by-product from his process. I definitely have had '16-'17 bottles with some pedio/brett stuff going on in them. Just seems once he got a bigger system(or just kettle?) everything has been mostly clean. I'm worried this new person helping out is doing too good of a job and cleaning a little too well. I guess we'll find out in a year or two.

 

[stakem1]

Do you know when the first batches after the upgrade were so I can keep this in mind when opening bottles and testing theory?

No idea, but I think he mentioned it on the forums here somewhere. Looking at his first mentions of acquiring new equipment were in his OP in this thread’s creation in October of 2017.

The new mash tun/kettle that suffered from the broken stir thingy causing the scorched grain/smoke tome era was fixed/replaced years prior though I thought.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

No idea, but I think he mentioned it on the forums here somewhere. Looking at his first mentions of acquiring new equipment were in his OP in this thread’s creation in October of 2017.

The new mash tun/kettle that suffered from the broken stir thingy causing the scorched grain/smoke tome era was fixed/replaced years prior though I thought.

I thought that was fixed 2012 or 2013 but I could be wrong.

 

[ElkSherpa1]

I raised this concern years ago when Dany mentioned acquiring new equipment to be more modern. It was the same time period he also mentioned getting an assistant to help him keep up with demand.

The unmistakeable “house” character that only emerges after several years in the bottle was always in my favorite ghost drinks. I dont think ive encountered it in any bottlings since the upgrade but maybe its still too soon to point blame.

If im not mistaken he has 3-4 different yeast selections he pulls from. I maintain hope and pray one of them still got the juice to set it loose.

I blame hops. I'm fairly certain he's been using more early kettle/bittering hops, confirmed by the firmer bitterness his beers have had in the last 3 - 4 years. I'd reckon this is stifling lactic acid bacteria growth, and suppressing that beautiful faint acidity most offerings developed over time.

This isn't a slight to Dany, or his brewery, but I think a thorough cleaning would still permit the inadvertent house character to develop in his beers.

 

[stakem1]

I blame hops. I'm fairly certain he's been using more early kettle/bittering hops, confirmed by the firmer bitterness his beers have had in the last 3 - 4 years. I'd reckon this is stifling lactic acid bacteria growth, and suppressing that beautiful faint acidity most offerings developed over time.

This isn't a slight to Dany, or his brewery, but I think a thorough cleaning would still permit the inadvertent house character to develop in his beers.

Man, I was really hoping you would chime in. Thank you for this insight. It makes a lot of sense.

I cant remember who I was talking to anymore but the bitterness thing was the main point of our conversation. I questioned whether it was a matter of more hops being used, fresher/different hops being able to be sourced or if it could have even been a matter of better hop efficiency/utilization due to his new gear?

So many unknowns to add to the layers of mystery.

 

[lazerviking]

I blame hops. I'm fairly certain he's been using more early kettle/bittering hops, confirmed by the firmer bitterness his beers have had in the last 3 - 4 years. I'd reckon this is stifling lactic acid bacteria growth, and suppressing that beautiful faint acidity most offerings developed over time.

This isn't a slight to Dany, or his brewery, but I think a thorough cleaning would still permit the inadvertent house character to develop in his beers.

Man, I was really hoping you would chime in. Thank you for this insight. It makes a lot of sense.

I cant remember who I was talking to anymore but the bitterness thing was the main point of our conversation. I questioned whether it was a matter of more hops being used, fresher/different hops being able to be sourced or if it could have even been a matter of better hop efficiency/utilization due to his new gear?

So many unknowns to add to the layers of mystery.

I've suspected early hop additions at least have been playing a part. Is it possible that with time the house yeast will eventually win out, or does the new hop usage fundamentally change the character of the beer? I haven't noticed much change to bottles over the last 1.5-2 years, meaning they have tasted fairly static throughout their life. I know that isn't a ton of time and I'm hoping with additional cellar time they develop more, but I would have expected more profound changes.

 

[ChaQuiseman]

I've suspected early hop additions at least have been playing a part. Is it possible that with time the house yeast will eventually win out, or does the new hop usage fundamentally change the character of the beer? I haven't noticed much change to bottles over the last 1.5-2 years, meaning they have tasted fairly static throughout their life. I know that isn't a ton of time and I'm hoping with additional cellar time they develop more, but I would have expected more profound changes.

Depends on the microbes in the house culture. If the Fantome bugs that provide acid are mostly lactobacillus, then it's unlikely that new releases (read: hop heavy batches) would develop acidity over time, since most strains of lacto are hop-intolerant.

If there is pedio in the culture, then you could expect acidity to develop as it ages since pedio tends to be more forgiving when it comes to hop presence.

 

[stakem1]

Is it possible that with time the house yeast will eventually win out, or does the new hop usage fundamentally change the character of the beer? I haven't noticed much change to bottles over the last 1.5-2 years, meaning they have tasted fairly static throughout their life. I know that isn't a ton of time and I'm hoping with additional cellar time they develop more, but I would have expected more profound changes.

Someone smarter than me can provide a much better analysis but here is my average joe understanding.

Hops are the antiseptic of the formula. More hops = tougher time for mystery microbes to have an impact.

If the beer world has taught me anything though, its that nothing is impossible or ever 100% accurate. Case in point: the Bruery found a way to spawn some mutant form of “lacto” that can turn a 17% abv wheatwine into a sour.

One other thing though we should also consider is that we are living in an age where we are getting bottles from Dany, fresher than ever before. Etre has made it possible for Dany to literally package a beer, etre picks it up and ships it a week or 2 later arriving at our door steps before the brothers von Shelton would even begin discussing the process of importing/distributing.

 

[JohnfromPurdue]

Picked this up from the discount shelf at my local liquor store. It cost $9.99 and was the last one. I had stayed away from it for so long because I remember hearing of poor reviews. Nice earthy citrus notes. The back end is a little to bitter for me but overall it’s an enjoyable bottle. I’m happy to have tried it.

 

[stakem1]

View attachment 5339
Picked this up from the discount shelf at my local liquor store. It cost $9.99 and was the last one. I had stayed away from it for so long because I remember hearing of poor reviews. Nice earthy citrus notes. The back end is a little to bitter for me but overall it’s an enjoyable bottle. I’m happy to have tried it.

This is priceless timing considering Garrett just posted in this thread an hourish ago.

I am guilty for saying some very negative things about this brew when it first came out. But ive had it 2 more times since and have enjoyed it exponentially more each time. Was fun to drink it in a side by side with the Jester King’s version.

At $10 a bottle, I would clear the shelf if given the opportunity.

 

[Saind]

Depends on the microbes in the house culture. If the Fantome bugs that provide acid are mostly lactobacillus, then it's unlikely that new releases (read: hop heavy batches) would develop acidity over time, since most strains of lacto are hop-intolerant.

If there is pedio in the culture, then you could expect acidity to develop as it ages since pedio tends to be more forgiving when it comes to hop presence.

Does beer get sick/ropey from anything other than pedio? Because if not, there's gotta be pedio in tome right?

 

[ElkSherpa1]

View attachment 5339
Picked this up from the discount shelf at my local liquor store. It cost $9.99 and was the last one. I had stayed away from it for so long because I remember hearing of poor reviews. Nice earthy citrus notes. The back end is a little to bitter for me but overall it’s an enjoyable bottle. I’m happy to have tried it.

I first had this beer on my 30th birthday, just a little over a month after we brewed it at Fantôme. It was up on etre about 2.5 weeks after the day it was brewed! It was murky, and realllyyyy rough around the edges. I still open one a few times a year, and am pretty happy with the direction it eventually took.

Fun story, we kind of made the recipe up on the spot - the grist and hop additions anyway.

Dany asked me, "How many bags of grain do you want to put in?".

I asked him, "How many do you typically use?", at which he replied, "Usually 12 to 20 or so."

We decided on 16 bags (if my memory serves me correct). It was one of my favorite brewing experiences to date. Dany was very generous with his time, and opened many beers for us to drink...never an empty glass. He took us to lunch in Hotton to a nice cafe where we drank Orval.

 

[Evahflow]

I first had this beer on my 30th birthday, just a little over a month after we brewed it at Fantôme. It was up on etre about 2.5 weeks after the day it was brewed! It was murky, and realllyyyy rough around the edges. I still open one a few times a year, and am pretty happy with the direction it eventually took.

Fun story, we kind of made the recipe up on the spot - the grist and hop additions anyway.

Dany asked me, "How many bags of grain do you want to put in?".

I asked him, "How many do you typically use?", at which he replied, "Usually 12 to 20 or so."

We decided on 16 bags (if my memory serves me correct). It was one of my favorite brewing experiences to date. Dany was very generous with his time, and opened many beers for us to drink...never an empty glass. He took us to lunch in Hotton to a nice cafe where we drank Orval.

This is my favorite. The how many bags of grain answer is why I love Fantome so much.

 

[ChaQuiseman]

Does beer get sick/ropey from anything other than pedio? Because if not, there's gotta be pedio in tome right?

I'm far from an expert on this, so don't quote me. My knowledge (or lack thereof) all stems from lurking various home brewing forums.

I believe that pedio is the only critter that can cause ropiness, and more specifically it's caused by specific strains of pedio. There are pedio strains that exhibit reduced acid production in the presence of hops, and I want to say that there's some overlap between the hop-inhibited and ropy cultures.

That said, I'd be shocked if there were not a myriad of pedio strains in the culture. Knowing the wild variation that Tomes are notorious for, that culture has to be a cornicoupia of different bugs.

 

[Sage1]

Dany asked me, "How many bags of grain do you want to put in?".

I asked him, "How many do you typically use?", at which he replied, "Usually 12 to 20 or so."

We decided on 16 bags (if my memory serves me correct). It was one of my favorite brewing experiences to date. Dany was very generous with his time, and opened many beers for us to drink...never an empty glass. He took us to lunch in Hotton to a nice cafe where we drank Orval.

This story is perfect.

 

[tehzachatak]

The last few pages in this thread have made me REALLY want a Tome now. Gonna go find the oldest one I can in my cellar and report back...

 

[iong516]

Lea's Journey sounds fun. Seeing it on shelves around, and I want to open one soon.

The bottom of the bottle revealed to me some mysterious secrets. Would bang again.

 

[tehzachatak]

I think this is approx 3 years old but I’m frankly not exactly sure. Maybe someone can tell me based on the label.. no date on it.

Pretty delicious. Definitely developing a restrained acidity.

 

[stakem1]

I think this is approx 3 years old but I’m frankly not exactly sure. Maybe someone can tell me based on the label.. no date on it.

View attachment 5344

Pretty delicious. Definitely developing a restrained acidity.

Late 2016/early 2017 was the last time strange ghost was brewed (that im aware of.)

The last few pages in this thread have made me REALLY want a Tome now. Gonna go find the oldest one I can in my cellar and report back...

Im taking the opposite approach and gonna open a 30th anniversary at some point this weekend.

 

[tehzachatak]

Im taking the opposite approach and gonna open a 30th anniversary at some point this weekend.

I'm assuming opening your oldest tome would be like, a significant event, so this makes sense haha

 

[stakem1]

I'm assuming opening your oldest tome would be like, a significant event, so this makes sense haha

I have too many “new to me” ones currently in the fridge that I wanna investigate.

However, no less than 2-3 times in the last couple months I considered pulling out a dusty but then guilt sets in if I dont share the experience with someone. Good or bad, its a lot more fun to have someone else along for the ride when dealing with the real old buggers.

 

[Pneill3161]

Opened up a couple dusty ones last weekend, sante 4 & 5. Both are holding up majestically!