English IPA Recipe Critique Please

[uofmguy]

Hey y'all,
Kinda new to formulating my own recipes still and this will actually be my first IPA so I would appreciate any help you can give me for this recipe

I'm hoping for a bready/biscuity beer with a nice hop presence that isn't overwhelming or too bitter. Basically I'm hoping for a balanced beer that if anything is on the malty side.

Here it goes:
5 Gal Batch
All Grain BIAB

Est OG 1.070
Est IBU 50.3
Est Color 13.1 SRM
Est ABV 7.3%

Yeast: Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

Fermentables:
10 lbs Marris Otter (74.1% Total)
1.5 lbs Biscuit (11.1% Total)
1 lbs Crisp British Crystal 45L (7.4%Total)
.5 lbs Crisp British Amber (30L) (3.7% Total)
.5 lbs Victory (25L) (3.7% Total)

Hops:
1oz Target 11%AA First Wort Hops
1oz Fuggle 4.5%AA Boil 20 min
1oz Bramling Cross 6%AA Boil 10 min
.5 Fuggle Whirlpool/Steeping
.5 Bramling Cross Whirlpool/Steeping
.5 Fuggle Dry Hop
.5 Bramling Cross Dry Hop

One thing I'm worried about it that I'm adding too much hops. Having never done an IPA (much less an English style one which are less hop forward) I'm worried about overdoing it. I still want hop presence and flavor and I heard that the yeast can subdue that.

Thanks everybody!

 

[uofmguy]

Also thinking about replacing one of the pounds of Marris Otter with some table sugar to lighten the body a bit. I know I can just mash a bit higher for lighter body, but I'm not very good at insulating my mash....

 

[orangehero]

The only thing I'm not sure about is the Biscuit and Victory. They are very similar and you are using it in a large amount (almost 15%). The flavors are bold, so you could reduce the total to less than 10%.

Otherwise looks good, you could even raise the IBU's to about 60. Personally I'm a fan of all EKG hops in an EIPA.

 

[JKaranka]

I quite like the hops you are going for. Specially the BX. I'd remove the Victory and the Biscuit. You already have a lot of Crystal and Amber there which should make it pretty malty. I'd drop the OG slightly or increase IBU. For reference, I use 10% flaked maize for EIPA to keep it light (as you mention with sugar). 3-5% Amber malt, some maize and everything else pale malt should be enough.

 

[uofmguy]

Thanks for the advice!

Orangehero: "The only thing I'm not sure about is the Biscuit and Victory. They are very similar and you are using it in a large amount (almost 15%). The flavors are bold, so you could reduce the total to less than 10%."

I think I'll reduce the Biscuit down to 1lbs making the Biscuit + Victory together about 10% of the grain bill. I read to keep Biscuit between 5 and 15% of the grain bill, but I agree, they are pretty strong so I think the two together around 10 should be good. I included both cause they are pretty similar, but hey a bit more complexity couldn't hurt right?

Orangehero: "Otherwise looks good, you could even raise the IBU's to about 60. Personally I'm a fan of all EKG hops in an EIPA."

As far as IBUs. I think I'll keep it as is and adjust the next time I make this. I cause myself no end of headaches by having both beersmith and brewtarget. Beersmith puts the IBUs at 51.3, but Brewtarget puts it at 59.4. Since they're always different, I usually try and put the average at about a level that I wouldn't be opposed to instead of relying on one of them. (though I think I side more towards beersmith...)

JKaranka: "I quite like the hops you are going for. Specially the BX. I'd remove the Victory and the Biscuit. You already have a lot of Crystal and Amber there which should make it pretty malty. I'd drop the OG slightly or increase IBU. For reference, I use 10% flaked maize for EIPA to keep it light (as you mention with sugar). 3-5% Amber malt, some maize and everything else pale malt should be enough."

I think I'll keep the biscuit and victory. Part of the reason I'm making an EIPA is cause I loooovvveee that bready/biscuityness though I can also see loving a lighter style EIPA as well (maybe that's next!). The flaked maize is a good idea though. I'm going to really consider that. Maybe read up on it first though cause I'm not really familiar with the ingredient.

Thanks guys!

 

[JKaranka]

I think if you go for something malty you should consider British strong ale, old ale and barleywine. It would still have way too much speciality malts for any of those. You could drop the hop stand and leave a small dry hop. Reduce Victory and Biscuit to a couple oz each and keep the rest the same.


If you are going for EIPA you have to massively reduce the malts. Check the BJCP 2015 guidance, it has improved quite a bit. They are not much maltier than other beers (they are often 100% MO or very close). At a relatively high gravity that is plenty of malt.

Just for reference the last EIPA that I made that went down like a storm with British drinkers was 1.055, 50 IBU, 90/10 of pale to maize. Hop stand plus dry hop were small. Attenuated down to 1.008 as well. I'd agree it's towards the lighter end of the scale, but absolutely recognized as a standard British ale over here.

 

[JKaranka]

Do you like Fullers' 1845? Sounds a bit like what you are aiming at. Fairly malty but with some hop kick. You could add 2lb extra pale malt and add some extra aroma hops.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=205873

For an EIPA you would look at a lot less malt character like in White Shield, Bengal Lancer, Jaipur or the Sam Smiths.

 

[BigEd]

Hey y'all,
Kinda new to formulating my own recipes still and this will actually be my first IPA so I would appreciate any help you can give me for this recipe

I'm hoping for a bready/biscuity beer with a nice hop presence that isn't overwhelming or too bitter. Basically I'm hoping for a balanced beer that if anything is on the malty side.

Here it goes:
5 Gal Batch
All Grain BIAB

Est OG 1.070
Est IBU 50.3
Est Color 13.1 SRM
Est ABV 7.3%

Yeast: Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

Fermentables:
10 lbs Marris Otter (74.1% Total)
1.5 lbs Biscuit (11.1% Total)
1 lbs Crisp British Crystal 45L (7.4%Total)
.5 lbs Crisp British Amber (30L) (3.7% Total)
.5 lbs Victory (25L) (3.7% Total)

Hops:
1oz Target 11%AA First Wort Hops
1oz Fuggle 4.5%AA Boil 20 min
1oz Bramling Cross 6%AA Boil 10 min
.5 Fuggle Whirlpool/Steeping
.5 Bramling Cross Whirlpool/Steeping
.5 Fuggle Dry Hop
.5 Bramling Cross Dry Hop

One thing I'm worried about it that I'm adding too much hops. Having never done an IPA (much less an English style one which are less hop forward) I'm worried about overdoing it. I still want hop presence and flavor and I heard that the yeast can subdue that.

Thanks everybody!

Way too much and too many specialty malts here. You don't need all that help with the MO as base malt. Eliminate the amber and victory malts. Then cut the biscuit and crystal to a half pound each. Put the missing malt weight into more MO.

This beer has a bigger OG and IBU than modern UK India pales which are just standard bitters with a little extra hop flavor & aroma. It's kind of a hybrid of modern and historical versions.

 

[uofmguy]

Yeah, from what I've heard, people who are actually from England tend to see EIPAs as lighter beers, while over in America, they tend to be darker and maltier. I guess that's why it seems (from my looking into other recipes as well as the comments on this) that people tend to go either mostly MO or a bunch of specialty malts, even including a decent amt of chocolate malt.

I'm from America so I haven't really had many EIPAs, but of the four that I've had one was just amazing while the others were very good, but didn't live up to the first. It was Left Hand's 400lb Monkey and it was wonderfully bready and biscuity with a decent, earthy hop balance. The other three, including Sam Smiths which was prob number 2 for me, were malty and balanced, but I was left missing the bready biscuity maltiness of Left Hand's. That's why I want to make sure to have the specialty malts. I know MO has flavor and maltiness, but I think I'm looking for a little more.

From the guidelines, it looks like the original recipe is definitely one the higher end of the spectrum for almost everything in the guidelines for the style, but it is still in the guidelines. IBUs have it in the middle, but SRM, ABV, and OG are all on the upper end.

I do think I am going to add a pound of flaked maize and decrease the MO to 9.5 lb in order to decrease body and helping the hops to shine forward more, making it 70.4% MO, 7.4% Biscuit, 7.4% British Crystal, 7.4% Flaked Maize, 3.4% British Amber, and 3.4% Victory.

Thanks for the input everybody!

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, from over here in the UK, an IPA is as strong but lighter, paler and hoppier than a strong bitter ("ESB"), stronger and hoppier than a golden ale, hoppier and lighter than a strong ale. Malt figures but in a subtle way (a bit like a German festbier).

If you are looking at maltier things you are definitively veering into strong ale territory, where you have a free-for-all of burton ales (dark strong beers with little dark malts), strong milds (darkish strong beers with slightly less hops), KKs (strong keeping ales, often burtons), C ales (black, strong, very hoppy beers with no dark malts), X ales (same as milds, but often regular strong ales), and other minor styles bundled into one category.

 

[uofmguy]

That's actually how American IPAs tend to be too. I guess having only tried a few examples, most of which were made in America, I must have a different idea of what EIPAs are like.

I definitely want to try a more authentic EIPA though. I think the english hops have some interesting flavors and, with less malt, some of the more delicate flavors can shine though. Maybe for my next brew!

 

[JKaranka]

I definitely want to try a more authentic EIPA though. I think the english hops have some interesting flavors and, with less malt, some of the more delicate flavors can shine though. Maybe for my next brew!

Yes, the hop flavour definitively help to make a difference. A bit like Pilsner but hoppier and stronger, with added dry hop character and a tad more colour.

 

[JKaranka]

I think I just get annoyed at Americans just adding a pile of dark malts to something and calling it English / British. If it doesn't aim to be pale and bitter / hoppy, it isn't an IPA. There are lots of other British styles to choose from. Most aren't malty (actually a lot of colour comes from sugars or brewing caramel) but they might be less hoppy or bitter which might highlight malt nuances. Burton ales and old ales could be brewed a lot more often if people wanted hoppy British styles that are dark. Or generic strong ales and barley wines. Few beers here are particularly sweet or malty (definitively less malty than US or German beers).

For example, take SNPA and switch the Cascade for Goldings / Styrians and you have a SB / EIPA (and not a pale or dry one at all).

 

[BaylessBrewer]

For example, take SNPA and switch the Cascade for Goldings / Styrians and you have a SB / EIPA (and not a pale or dry one at all).

Wonderful idea! I have a few ounces of Challenger, EKG and Fuggles in the freezer that need to be used up along with some wyeast 1882 & 1026.

 

[JKaranka]

Wonderful idea! I have a few ounces of Challenger, EKG and Fuggles in the freezer that need to be used up along with some wyeast 1882 & 1026.

Wicked!