English Barleywine - should I pitch WLP099?

[Imperial1]

I brewed an English Barleywine (5.2 Gallon) 30 days ago and need some advice regarding my fermentation. I mashed about 18lb of Grain and added about 8lb of DME to the boil to end up with an OG of 1.164. Wort was cooled to 78F and well aerated prior to pitching my yeast. I pitched 2 types of yeast both of which had been obtained from washing yeast cakes from prior brews - both of which were less than 2 weeks old when pitched into the Barleywine and had been well stored. The first was pretty much the entire washed yeast cake from a Chimay Blue clone I tried using Fermentis Abbaye yeast. The second was about half a washed yeast cake of a strong English ale brewed with WLP 002. I made a 1.5 Gallon starter with the washed yeasts (combined). I estimate that I pitched around 700 billion yeast cells into my starter which I believe should be enough to finish the job. Fermentation started within 4 hours of pitching the yeast and my blow-off hose worked really hard for the first 2-3 days. After day 8 my gravity was down to 1.090 (10.1% ABV). Since then activity has slowed and the gravity is currently 1.065 (13.5%). I still have a bubble through my airlock at least once every 60 seconds so there is definitely still some fermentation on the go, but to have only dropped 2.5 points in 3 weeks seems a little slow and I'm not sure my yeast are going to manage to finish the job (target is 1.020) with the rising alcohol levels. Visually there still seems to be lots of yeast in suspension. My fermentation temp is 70F. Yesterday I purchased a vial of WLP099 (can ferment up to 25%) and I am considering pitching it. My options, as I see things, are as follows:
1 - Do nothing for the next 30 days and see where I get to
2 - Pitch the WLP 099 - If I do this I would like some advice on what sort of starter I shoud be making to prepare the yeast for pitching into a wort/beer that is already at 13.5%.
Any/all advice/suggestions/comments welcome.

 

[zoomzilla]

I don't think its going to get much lower. That alcohol content is about where most yeast strains die. In fact I'm surprised it got that high. I would make a 1 liter starter from the 099, decant and pitch. It will eat through the rest of those sugars without a problem and get it down to 1.020 or 1.030 depending on how much adjunct you used.

 

[Imperial1]

Thanks, have done exactly this and will see how it goes. Should I expect to see krausen forming again or just stray activity through the airlock?

 

[BigFloyd]

Thanks, have done exactly this and will see how it goes. Should I expect to see krausen forming again or just stray activity through the airlock?

It may be subtle. I'd be inclined to leave it alone after the 099 pitch (keep between 66-70*F) and check gravity in a couple weeks.

1.020 is a totally unrealistic target FG for this beer.

 

[Imperial1]

If 1.02 is unrealistic what FG should I be aiming/happy with? I managed to get a Russian Imperial Stout with an OG of 1.122 down to 1.016 last year so just assumed I could get the Barleywine down to 1.020.

 

[Gerry_P]

Sorry, a little late to the party. I just pitched some WLP099 in my barleywine. OG was 1.105, the London Ale yeast stopped at 1.032. (Calculator predicted 1.028 with that yeast.) I pitched the WLP099 a couple days ago, and although I see a little krausen activity the gravity hasn't changed. The calculator predicted a FG of 1.016 with the 099, but I don't know if that's reliable. The 099 should be able to handle 14-16% without any special treatment, or so they say. I was going to give it a couple weeks, then see where it's at and decide what to do next. The 099 might have a tendency to work slowly sometimes.

BTW I used a 2 step starter with some yeast nutrient. We'll see how well that worked...

 

[Imperial1]

I pitched my WLP 099 on the 20th of March and have not taken a gravity reading since then - I was advised to "check gravity in a couple of weeks" so plan to do so this weekend, when I hope to be able to rack to a secondary fermenter if the gravity has dropped as hoped. What I can say is that visually the wort now looks more like beer than it did 3 weeks ago. It seems like yeast has settled and the beer has cleared (and darkened) significantly. It leeks really good - lets hope taste matches appearance. Will let you know on Monday!

 

[JKaranka]

1.164 is a ridiculous OG to start with, you'd be lucky to get to 1.050. Not sure if Brett C would help but it's what you got in the olden days.

 

[Gerry_P]

1.164 is a ridiculous OG to start with, you'd be lucky to get to 1.050. Not sure if Brett C would help but it's what you got in the olden days.

I saw a Sam Adams Utopias clone (10 gal.) that called for an OG of 1.196. I stopped reading it after "40 lbs. of 2 row" and "15 lbs. of 6 row".

 

[Imperial1]

So I checked the gravity this weekend (3 weeks after pitching the WLP 099) and there has been no change since the 1.065 I recorder 3 weeks ago. Anybody have a suggestion on what I could / should do now?

 

[Gerry_P]

So I checked the gravity this weekend (3 weeks after pitching the WLP 099) and there has been no change since the 1.065 I recorder 3 weeks ago. Anybody have a suggestion on what I could / should do now?

I have a backup plan if this happens to my barleywine. It's a ritual involving symbols drawn in chalk, strategically placed candles, and reading an ancient text from a book bound in human skin. Possibly some sort of poultry sacrifice as well.

 

[chri5]

So I checked the gravity this weekend (3 weeks after pitching the WLP 099) and there has been no change since the 1.065 I recorder 3 weeks ago. Anybody have a suggestion on what I could / should do now?

What did you end up doing?

 

[Gerry_P]

Funny, I just re-read this thread yesterday and was wondering the same thing. I didn't get much out of the WLP099 myself, I think you definitely need to give that one special treatment for it to perform well.

 

[chri5]

That's funny. I'm trying to decide if I brew a super high OG beer with wlp099 from the beginning or if I use it only after something like us05 runs out of steam due to high abv.

 

[Gerry_P]

That's funny. I'm trying to decide if I brew a super high OG beer with wlp099 from the beginning or if I use it only after something like us05 runs out of steam due to high abv.

How high of an ABV are we talking about?

 

[Imperial1]

Getting back to my attempt at Barley wine starting at 1.165 that stalled at 1.060 despite pitching WLP099. It was way too sweet to do anything with (apart from pouring down the drain)so I brewed a Small beer (OG 1.040) with high IBU's and after it finished its primary fermentation I mixed wit with the "Barley wine". After the mix the gravity was down to 1.045 and after another month in the fermenter the gravity had dropped to 1.025. It tastes "interesting" for lack of a better word, and I eventually bottled last night. It may still turn out to be a disaster and need to be discarded but If you never try you never know.

 

[chri5]

Getting back to my attempt at Barley wine starting at 1.165 that stalled at 1.060 despite pitching WLP099. It was way too sweet to do anything with (apart from pouring down the drain)so I brewed a Small beer (OG 1.040) with high IBU's and after it finished its primary fermentation I mixed wit with the "Barley wine". After the mix the gravity was down to 1.045 and after another month in the fermenter the gravity had dropped to 1.025. It tastes "interesting" for lack of a better word, and I eventually bottled last night. It may still turn out to be a disaster and need to be discarded but If you never try you never know.

Glad you got something that made a decent final gravity. It sounds like you essentially made a giant starter for it to kick fermentation back off.

 

[chri5]

How high of an ABV are we talking about?

About the same as the OP. I'd like to finish with something above 18% with a decent FG. I'm planning out doing it with stepped additions of high gravity wort though.

I also have the idea of trying for a full Utopia clone. But I guess that really depends upon how long I can baby wlp099 with the additions.

 

[Gerry_P]

That's funny. I'm trying to decide if I brew a super high OG beer with wlp099 from the beginning or if I use it only after something like us05 runs out of steam due to high abv.

If I'm reading the notes correctly on WLP099 on White Labs' website, it can be used at the beginning of fermentation. I figured I could just pitch it after my first yeast went kaput and it would finish the job, but that was not the case. They also say to pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as usual, plus a lot of aeration and wort additions and all that. I'm thinking there has to be a simpler solution. I wonder what would happen if you started with your initial yeast, and when that was finished you pitched something like Wyeast 4347 distiller's yeast which has a tolerance of 21%. I think some people have used it to finish high ABV beer fermentations. The only potential problem I see is that it's supposed to finish dry, but that might not be a bad thing. I just noticed that Northern Brewer recommends it for use in barley wine.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

So, uh, I found this thread after quite a few similar searches, the last of them googling "stepped additions of high gravity wort" to see if I can find some details on how that is usually done for best results. I have an imperial black barleywine with a target OG of 16.5% I just pitched this evening.

Can it really be that no one ever wrote down how they did it?

 

[Nico93]

here you can find something interesting:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=259314

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Thanks *gives Google a good hard smack*