Element wiring and recptacles

[Fishdisease]

Hey Everyone,

Long time creeper, first time poster. So I've been researching and reading for the past few weeks as I'm priming to upgrade my 3 vessel propane/gravity system to a e-brewery setup. Although I understand it, I guess I need opinions on a couple of points.

1. What advantage is there in plugging the element into the controller vs. potting a plug directly to the element and hardwiring an "extension cord" into the controller with a L6-30 receptacle on the end? What I'm talking about is hardwiring the cord into the box instead of into the element. Sure the potting of the plug into the element will take more jb-weld and take up a bit more space, but it would work. If you use the electrical box then you could use a wall-mount plug.

I'm thinking it would be easier if you need to remove the vessel from the stand for a good cleaning or work to the system.

2. Why does everyone insist on using the flanged receptacle? Is there something offside about using a wall receptacle in the control box? Something like this wall mount receptacle seems like it would work with minimal effort.

Thanks

Dave

 

[abarnett]

To answer #2, don't forget this is HBT, where overkill rules the day. The flanged outlets are definitely in the "bling" category. My control panel uses standard outlets, and I have no problems. There is some argument to be made about using locking plugs and receptacles, but that's a matter of how your particular build is set up and what level of safety vs money trade off you're comfortable with.

To answer #1, it's usually easier to treat the element as an appliance to be plugged in, rather than reversing things. One very important safety matter is to never have your "live" wires terminate in male plugs, only female receptacles. So if you're going to put the wire on the control panel instead of the element, you need to have a male (typically flanged) inlet on the element and a female end on your wire.

 

[Fishdisease]

To answer #2, don't forget this is HBT, where overkill rules the day. The flanged outlets are definitely in the "bling" category. My control panel uses standard outlets, and I have no problems. There is some argument to be made about using locking plugs and receptacles, but that's a matter of how your particular build is set up and what level of safety vs money trade off you're comfortable with.

Understood. And I am absolutely looking at locking receptacles, probably going to buy this exact plug as described in the link in the OP.

To answer #1, it's usually easier to treat the element as an appliance to be plugged in, rather than reversing things. One very important safety matter is to never have your "live" wires terminate in male plugs, only female receptacles. So if you're going to put the wire on the control panel instead of the element, you need to have a male (typically flanged) inlet on the element and a female end on your wire.

Yes, I know about making suicide cables and the dangers associated with. I was never planning on having live current to a male plug, maybe I was a bit ambiguous when I described the application in the OP. I am mostly thinking about what is more practical for the majority of situations; unplugging at the control box or at the keg.

This will be a system that will be used by myself and a few friends. Although we're all older and somewhat responsible, I plan on making this system and fool-proof and safe as possible. Perhaps that's why I'm forgoing bling and looking at ways to cut down unnecessary expense. Have float switches, interlock circuits and overkill in safety features aint cheap!

Dave

 

[SweetSounds]

I am mostly thinking about what is more practical for the majority of situations; unplugging at the control box or at the keg.

I would unplug at the control box for one simple reason.
If you unplug at the keg, you have live wires directly exposed, next to your kettle. With a whip, if you boil over, the liquid will get everywhere, but not to bare copper (Assuming your panel is higher than the element, or you have a drip loop)

I prefer to have everything electrical near liquids all sealed up. Move your vulnerable bits safely away from the dangerous stuff...

 

[Fishdisease]

I would unplug at the control box for one simple reason.
If you unplug at the keg, you have live wires directly exposed, next to your kettle. With a whip, if you boil over, the liquid will get everywhere, but not to bare copper (Assuming your panel is higher than the element, or you have a drip loop)

I prefer to have everything electrical near liquids all sealed up. Move your vulnerable bits safely away from the dangerous stuff...

That is an excellent argument against unplugging at the keg. Just because I haven't had a boil-over in a long time doesn't mean it won't happen again.

What I was proposing is to wire and pot a male L6-30 locking plug directly to the element. From the control box would be a length of cable terminating in female locking L6-30 receptacle. I work with cable design and production as part of my job, every day, and potting those bare wires and making it water proof is easy as pie. There would not be any bare charged copper in this situation. However, the expense to move to a locking and watertight plug/receptacle definitely outweighs any benefit from unplugging at the keg as per your scenario.

Thanks
Dave

 

[AggieBrewer01]

I am planning on using this on my HLT:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&keyword=202019430&storeId=10051#.UEpOGfXQ4ip

I plan to mount the generator inlet box over / around my water heater element on the HLT. And then use a female L14-30 plug coming from my control panel to plug into the box. I plan on using plenty of silicone to seal the box. Do y'all think this would work? The box came in the other day, and the only concern I have is whether or not the L14-30 Male Inlet on the box will withstand the heat. The aluminum box should be fine, but since the inlet is made out of plastic, will it melt?

 

[SweetSounds]

I am planning on using this on my HLT:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&keyword=202019430&storeId=10051#.UEpOGfXQ4ip

I plan to mount the generator inlet box over / around my water heater element on the HLT. And then use a female L14-30 plug coming from my control panel to plug into the box. I plan on using plenty of silicone to seal the box. Do y'all think this would work? The box came in the other day, and the only concern I have is whether or not the L14-30 Male Inlet on the box will withstand the heat. The aluminum box should be fine, but since the inlet is made out of plastic, will it melt?

Why? At $50+ per it would be cheaper and WAY safer to build a whip from your element and plug it into the panel.

Personally, I don't like the idea of ANY exposed 240 at the kettle. Boilovers happen...

 

[AggieBrewer01]

Why? At $50+ per it would be cheaper and WAY safer to build a whip from your element and plug it into the panel.

Personally, I don't like the idea of ANY exposed 240 at the kettle. Boilovers happen...

I think the price would be pretty well the same for me. I already have a 25' generator extension cord. I will probably cut off the last 2' or so with the female end, and use this to make the whip going from my control panel into my generator inlet box, and use the 23' that's left, with the male end, to plug into my outlet coming from a spa panel to power my control panel.

If I decided to make a whip coming off my HLT and return the generator inlet box, I would get my $55 (or $60 - I don't have the receipt in front of me) back. I could still use the last 2' of my generator extension cord to make the whip, and just cut off the female end of the cord. Then I would have to buy some sort of box to go around the water heater element...10$ or so? And then buy a female L14-30 outlet to put in my control panel...$25 or so? And then buy a male L14-30 plug for the end of the whip...another $25? So the price would be about the same.

But what it really comes down to, is that I just don't want a whip hanging off my HLT. Even though it should just have water in it, I'm sure I'll end up washing / cleaning it, and I think a whip would get in the way.

The description of the generator inlet box says it's rain tight, so I would think it would be appropriate for use in a wet location like this and not have 240 V exposed, so I don't see why it would be safer one way or the other.

I am not claiming I know the best way to do this - I'm just trying to explain what I have planned and figure out which would be best for my application. I appreciate the advice and input!

 

[gunmetal]

I think the standard L6-30 receptacles look nicer installed than the flanged receptacles. Mine fit super tight, you have to twist them into the hole. Make the hole first, install the outlet from the outside, upside down, to mark the two mounting holes, drill them and you are done. Mounting them on the bottom of the panel makes it very hard for any liquid to get even near them. The L6-30 male plugs are larger in diameter than the receptacle holes which also makes it harder for liquid to get in.