Efficiency Issues

[alooper86]

I currently use a single tier 20 gal, three vessel stainless brewing set up. I do not have a HERMS coil but I do a recirculating mash for 60 min keeping a very small flame under the mash tun in order to keep the correct mash temperature. In recirculating, I use a piece of silicone tubing. I also make sure to keep my wort pH between 5.2 - 5.4. I will double crush my grains to insure a uniform crush. I sparge at a rate of 5 min/gal and do essentially everything I can in order to maximize efficiency. However, especially when I brew 6 gal batches on this set up, my efficiency is just terrible. I am missing my numbers quite drastically and at this point, I just simply do not know what to adjust in order to bring my efficiency back to where it should be in the 70s.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[dmtaylor]

1) Crush harder.
2) Mash not at 5.2-5.4 but rather 5.5-5.6.

 

[VikeMan]

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Maybe read through this presentation for some ideas:
http://sonsofalchemy.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Mash_Efficiency_and_Brewhouse_Efficiency.pdf

 

[doug293cz]

I currently use a single tier 20 gal, three vessel stainless brewing set up. I do not have a HERMS coil but I do a recirculating mash for 60 min keeping a very small flame under the mash tun in order to keep the correct mash temperature. In recirculating, I use a piece of silicone tubing. I also make sure to keep my wort pH between 5.2 - 5.4. I will double crush my grains to insure a uniform crush. I sparge at a rate of 5 min/gal and do essentially everything I can in order to maximize efficiency. However, especially when I brew 6 gal batches on this set up, my efficiency is just terrible. I am missing my numbers quite drastically and at this point, I just simply do not know what to adjust in order to bring my efficiency back to where it should be in the 70s.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency?

You haven't given us any data at all. Hard to diagnose without data. Here's the data that should be collected if you want to understand what's going on with your efficiency:

• Grain bill weight and ingredient breakdown
• Strike volume
• End of mash/first runnings SG
• Pre-boil SG and volume
• Any fermentables added in boil (weight and type)
• Post-boil SG and volume
• Volume to fermenter

Accuracy of efficiency calculations will be no better than the accuracy of the measurements above. Ideally SG readings are taken at the calibration temp of your hydrometer, or at least on cooled samples and then corrected for temperature. An aggessive stirring of the pre-boil wort is required to assure accuracy of the SG reading (wort must be homogenized, if stratified, readings can be high or low.)

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

bring my efficiency back to where it should be in the 70s.

should at least pull 80's

I sparge at a rate of 5 min/gal

way too fast, i consider my fly sparging a slow drain batch sparge. with multiple rinses.


(i'd hate to say slow it down a lot, do your self a favor take a nap! lol i fell asleep during a mash ended up with 97% effec i was in a hurry last time, excited i was going to get 99%, f'd the whole deal...no one listens to me but, i do a two step mash at anything between 145-158f, then a bump it up, now with decotion to 162-163f...bumped me up from 83% to mid 90's...)

 

[day_trippr]

5 minutes per gallon is just slightly slower than the frequently recommend quart per minute - which is how I roll my fly sparge.
I doubt one could discern any difference aside from the extra minute itself...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

5 minutes per gallon is just slightly slower than the frequently recommend quart per minute -

maybe a 30 minute sparge just seems too quick to me because i sparge 14 gallons for pre boil.....? i spend about an hour, hour and a half. if not more.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw...my total pre-boil volume is usually 13.25 gallons (for 11 gallons to the fermentors) and I sparge at a quart per minute. My first runnings volume is typically 4.5 gallons so I'm sparging for another 8-3/4 gallons of pre-boil volume. At that quart per minute to which I set my pumps/autosparge it does take almost 40 minutes for the sparge phase. But I've been consistently hitting the low 90s in extract efficiency with this 3v2p herms gasser rig (now a few years in service) - with end-of-runnings SG usually verging on 10 points - so I'm not leaving a lot behind

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

But I've been consistently hitting the low 90s in extract efficienc

i still don't get the different ratings. i just use beersmith BH % and what goes into the kegs. figure if i stick with one measure, i can tell if i'm doing better or worse.

 

[day_trippr]

Nothing wrong with that approach, but I do favor understanding all the contributing factors to enable optimization at the many different phases...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

i've thought about that also, like my last batch i think i sparged too fast. i took a first runnings SG, but not a final.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency?

You haven't given us any data at all. Hard to diagnose without data. Here's the data that should be collected if you want to understand what's going on with your efficiency:

• Grain bill weight and ingredient breakdown
• Strike volume
• End of mash/first runnings SG
• Pre-boil SG and volume
• Any fermentables added in boil (weight and type)
• Post-boil SG and volume
• Volume to fermenter

Accuracy of efficiency calculations will be no better than the accuracy of the measurements above. Ideally SG readings are taken at the calibration temp of your hydrometer, or at least on cooled samples and then corrected for temperature. An aggessive stirring of the pre-boil wort is required to assure accuracy of the SG reading (wort must be homogenized, if stratified, readings can be high or low.)

Brew on

^^This

With these measurements you can work out where your issue lies. Without them, you could spend a lot of time and money fixing things that aren't broken. Use the 'mash' part of this spreadsheet http://braukaiser.com/documents/efficiency_calculator.xls
to calculate your mash conversion efficiency. It's an often ignored step but will help identify if your issue is the mash (crush, mash time, pH, water, grain measurement etc.) or if the issue is further down the line (eg. sparge). My money is on an incomplete mash which will show a conversion efficiency under 90% (95% or higher is ideal).

 

[hottpeper13]

I have a 3 vessel , 15 gal system and when doing 5 gal low gravity beers I was having the same issue. Mine is a rectangular cooler and I didn't think the grain bed was deep enough so i got a BIAB and start with 1 qt / lb strike at 148* and then add boiling liquor for step up to 158*. When mash is done I raise the bag and sparge it with whatever is left in the HLT. No recirc, only 2 vessels needed and way easy cleanup.

 

[eric19312]

Do agree we need OP to come back with some data if we are going to be able to provide much help. I run a very similar system - 3 vessel with 15 gal HLT and MLT and 22 gal BK. Never thought to try for a 6 gallon batch. My guess is reason to do so would be something with a very high OG. High OG batches often take efficiency hit (unless you plan for very long boil which I guess you could with looking to yield 6 gallons out of a 20 gallon kettle).

I'm suspecting the issue is more about the system being designed for larger batches. There are fixed losses like mash tun deadspace, losses in transfer lines, losses in the brew kettle, that may be independent of batch size. As batch size increases these become smaller relative to the total and so the brewhouse efficiency increases.

BTW OP I did that low flame trick for about 10 batches and then built a DIY version of Blichmann Tower of Power. Much easier than monitoring that low flame.