Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

[agenthucky]

i have been looking all over for a colander big enough, but haven't found one yet.

I like the idea of putting the pot on the ground to get some more leverage on holding the bag. only thing i would be worried about would be spilling when i'm moving it to the floor. And burning my floor, but I think a few folded towels under neath would do the trick.


I probably will just drain for a few seconds to get the bulk at first, then put the bag in a spare pot.

In my general opinion, holding the bad for lengths of time will make it weaker. I found a colander and it's great. It minimized the stress I put on the threading of the bag. I've noticed the threading start to come out on some bags, I upgrade way before I think I have to because I'm not looking forward to the day where that bag breaks. I brew a lot, so I'm always cautious of the shape of the bag. I've often double bagged with a paint strainer. No loss in efficiency. You have to hold the bag for at least some amount of time to get the bulk out, but I try to minimize that with support on the bottom.

 

[Justibone]

If you want a colander or something like it strong enough to support your grain, try searching for steamer baskets... maybe you'll have more luck.

http://www.google.com/search?q=steamer+basket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

 

[DeathBrewer]

This is the type of strainer I use, although I think mine is a little bigger:

http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/update-international/shd-14ss/p6271.aspx

 

[bottlebomber]

This is the type of strainer I use, although I think mine is a little bigger:

http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/update-international/shd-14ss/p6271.aspx

This is what I will try to get... the steamer baskets actually sit in the pot so I don't see how they would strain. Im a little unclear- I understand the mashing part. But then the sparge water... what exactly is it doing? You put the grain bag in it after its been in the mash? You put the grain bag in the strainer and pour the sparge water over it? Please explain, I have totally been wanting to do this

 

[Justibone]

Let the master at explanations explain it:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html

Sparging is two or three paragraphs down, but the whole page is worth a read. The whole *book* is worth a read.

 

[bottlebomber]

Let the master at explanations explain it:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html

Sparging is two or three paragraphs down, but the whole page is worth a read. The whole *book* is worth a read.

Awesome, thank you. It seems like there's a couple ways to do it. I would probably be inclined to just soak the grain bag in a second volume of water and combine the two

 

[houndsbreath]

I just tried this method for an IPA; I'm in the middle of the boil right now. I scalded my hand BUT I hit 85% efficiency with a 165F mash and a dead-on cooler sparge. To hell with extract, this is awesome! I just jumped 0.5% ABV on a IPA; no complaints here

 

[jigidyjim]

I just tried this method for an IPA; I'm in the middle of the boil right now. I scalded my hand BUT I hit 85% efficiency with a 165F mash and a dead-on cooler sparge. To hell with extract, this is awesome! I just jumped 0.5% ABV on a IPA; no complaints here

165F is a really hot mash... you might end up with a lot of unfermentables, so don't count on your +0.5%ABV quite yet

 

[houndsbreath]

yes, i realized my sparge was too hot after i took the first temp reading. i was able to stir heavily and drop to ~150 quickly. I'm using a very dry yeast (wyeast 3711) so some extra body may not be a bad mistake to have made. Consieering this is my first BIAB, i'd call that a minor problem.

 

[agenthucky]

yes, i realized my sparge was too hot after i took the first temp reading. i was able to stir heavily and drop to ~150 quickly. I'm using a very dry yeast (wyeast 3711) so some extra body may not be a bad mistake to have made. Consieering this is my first BIAB, i'd call that a minor problem.

if your mash temp dropped quickly, there shouldn't be too much to worry about, leaving it for 15 minutes is another story. Adjusting temp quickly should be a minimal impact other than scorching, which at 165F shouldn't be a problem. I use ice if I need to. If you cooled it to 150F, it should be pretty fermentable, and along with the 3711 will probably be pretty dry.

I wouldn't call the wrong mash temp a minor problem though, it is one of the most important variables in doing all grain.

 

[bottlebomber]

How large of a grainbill can be worked with this? Can you fit, say, 15 pounds of grain in a 10 gallon pot with enough water to mash? I don't like little beers...

 

[DeathBrewer]

Then I would use some extract. You could fit that much, but it would get awfully heavy and you may get poor efficiency anyway.

There is nothing wrong with extract! Grain just gives you more versatility, but you don't need to go ALL grain to get that versatility

 

[tincob]

DeathBrewer,

How do you handle multi-step infusion brewing with this method?

I've seen some brews that calls for different temperatures at different times of the mash process before the boil.

Is it just a matter of turning the stove on with the grain/nylon bag sitting in the pot until the next temp is reached? It would be hard to nail the temp on an electric burner but I guess I can give it a go.

 

[agenthucky]

DeathBrewer,

How do you handle multi-step infusion brewing with this method?

I've seen some brews that calls for different temperatures at different times of the mash process before the boil.

Is it just a matter of turning the stove on with the grain/nylon bag sitting in the pot until the next temp is reached? It would be hard to nail the temp on an electric burner but I guess I can give it a go.

There is a lot of info in the previous posts, around the 50-60s possibly. There are a few ways to do it, but it depends on your personal setup. I like to do a two step infusion, but if you use the stove you need to stir a lot and it will take a long time becaus you want to do it slowly.

 

[electronjunkie]

DeathBrewer,

How do you handle multi-step infusion brewing with this method?

I've seen some brews that calls for different temperatures at different times of the mash process before the boil.

Is it just a matter of turning the stove on with the grain/nylon bag sitting in the pot until the next temp is reached? It would be hard to nail the temp on an electric burner but I guess I can give it a go.

I have boiled water on another burner and add that for multistep mashes. You thin the mash out but according to Jamil Zanishef that doesn't matter. The key is to add that boiling water slowly.

I have done this for my mashout too to keep things simple. If I overshoot I just add cold water.

 

[bottlebomber]

Then I would use some extract. You could fit that much, but it would get awfully heavy and you may get poor efficiency anyway.

There is nothing wrong with extract! Grain just gives you more versatility, but you don't need to go ALL grain to get that versatility

Its not really the having anything against extract, its more that id like to start taking advantage of some of these awesome looking AG recipes on here, and many of them call for between 15-18 pounds of grain. I guess I could scale them back and make 3 gallon batches... so you don't think with a good crush and a 90 minute steep at 154-156 degrees that good efficiency can be obtained? This is a great thread btw

 

[ThickHead]

Can you fit, say, 15 pounds of grain in a 10 gallon pot with enough water to mash? I don't like little beers...

Since I routinely mash 10-13 lbs of grain in my 7.5 gallon pots and consistently achieve efficiencies in the mid 70s I would say, yes. Additionally, don't be overly put off by the limitations that others may experience. Though do take heed. In my experience, the largest hurdle using this process is boil volume. Most stoves (electric in any case) do not do well boiling more than about 5.5 gallons. But that is merely where I find challenge. Yours may come at a different point in the process. However, I don't think you will have any issues with what you have asked above.

 

[bottlebomber]

Since I routinely mash 10-13 lbs of grain in my 7.5 gallon pots and consistently achieve efficiencies in the mid 70s I would say, yes. Additionally, don't be overly put off by the limitations that others may experience. Though to take heed. In my experience, the largest hurdle using this process is boil volume. Most stoves (electric in any case) do not do well boiling more than about 5.5 gallons. But that is merely where I find challenge. Yours may come at a different point in the process. However, I don't think you will have any issues with what you have asked above.

Thank you for the encouragement. I wont know till I try it I guess (next month?) I usually don't take peoples word for stuff, but it is definitely good here on HBT to learn from others experience. I use a 250k btu propane burner so achieving a boil isn't an issue.

 

[Wakadaka]

Its not really the having anything against extract, its more that id like to start taking advantage of some of these awesome looking AG recipes on here, and many of them call for between 15-18 pounds of grain. I guess I could scale them back and make 3 gallon batches... so you don't think with a good crush and a 90 minute steep at 154-156 degrees that good efficiency can be obtained? This is a great thread btw

IIRC malt extract is basically just 2-row. Its pretty easy to convert recipes from AG to partial mash, and you could still do mostly All grain. I wouldn't want to deal with lifting 15lbs of grains out of a pot filled with water. Maybe I am just weak, but it gets pretty heavy with a 10lb grain bill and full of water.

 

[agenthucky]

Extract = two row, you won't notice a difference, but it sure does cost a lot more!

 

[bottlebomber]

Extract = two row, you won't notice a difference, but it sure does cost a lot more!

Good to know. Weight isn't really an issue, I could probably pretty easily lug a 25 or 30 pound sack of grain out of the mash and hold it up for a sec while a get a colander under it. But what I need to know now is, assuming 70 percent efficiency, how much grain in pounds does is take to equal malt extract? I mean, say (in theory not hard numbers) that 6 lbs of extract raises 5 gallons of water from 1.000 to 1.040. How many pounds of grain does it take to do that

 

[agenthucky]

Good to know. Weight isn't really an issue, I could probably pretty easily lug a 25 or 30 pound sack of grain out of the mash and hold it up for a sec while a get a colander under it. But what I need to know now is, assuming 70 percent efficiency, how much grain in pounds does is take to equal malt extract? I mean, say (in theory not hard numbers) that 6 lbs of extract raises 5 gallons of water from 1.000 to 1.040. How many pounds of grain does it take to do that

That all depends on the modification of the malt. Off the top of my head two row is about 1.032 for a lb/gal, but I would look it up.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Its not really the having anything against extract, its more that id like to start taking advantage of some of these awesome looking AG recipes on here, and many of them call for between 15-18 pounds of grain. I guess I could scale them back and make 3 gallon batches... so you don't think with a good crush and a 90 minute steep at 154-156 degrees that good efficiency can be obtained? This is a great thread btw

Like was stated above, you can replace almost any amount of 2-row with pale, light or gold extract (they are pretty much synonymous) and use the rest of your grain in exactly the same way.

Just to make up numbers, say...
2-row gets about 36ppg (ppg = points of gravity per pound of extract per gallon of total volume, including water)
extract gets about 42ppg

These numbers may vary based on company and whatnot, but using this, it's easy:

Say you get 70% efficiency...if you wanted to replace 6 lbs of 2-row, the formula would go like this:

6 x 36 / 5 * 0.70 = points (must be done in order)

6 x 36 = 216 points in one gallon
216 / 5 = 43.2 points in 5 gallons
43.2 * 0.70 = 30.24 points with 70% efficiency in 5 gallons

If y is your total pounds, then your extract formula is:

y * 42 / 5 = 30.24

or

30.24 * 5 / 42 = lbs of extract

30.24 * 5 = 151.2
151.2 / 42 = 3.6 lbs

3.6 lbs of extract = 6 lbs of 2-row at 70% efficiency

Hope that was explained satisfactorily.

Here's a chart from How To Brew that gives you general numbers of all the grain:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html

 

[bottlebomber]

That was pretty much exactly what I had hoped for. Ill probably print that out actually. Thanks

 

[wiescins]

Good to know. Weight isn't really an issue, I could probably pretty easily lug a 25 or 30 pound sack of grain out of the mash and hold it up for a sec while a get a colander under it. But what I need to know now is, assuming 70 percent efficiency, how much grain in pounds does is take to equal malt extract? I mean, say (in theory not hard numbers) that 6 lbs of extract raises 5 gallons of water from 1.000 to 1.040. How many pounds of grain does it take to do that

my base assumption is 5lbs 2row = 3lbs dry DME.

 

[DeathBrewer]

That's a great assumption, since homebrewers using this method generally have efficiency ranges from 50-80%

40 points of gravity with 2-row at 37ppg:

y = pounds of 2-row
z = efficiency

y * 37 / 5 * z = 40
note: These must be done in order...the proper equation is more like this:
((y * 37) / 5 ) * z = 40

so, based on that, we have:

50% efficiency:
((y * 37) / 5) * 0.5 = 40
or
((40 / 0.5) * 5) / 37 = pounds]
or
((gravity / efficiency) * volume) / ppg = pounds
or breakdown
40 / 0.5 = 80
80 * 5 = 400
400 / 37 = 10.8 lbs

65% efficiency:
40 / 0.65 = 61.5
61.5 * 5 = 307.5
307.5 / 37 = 8.3 lbs

80% efficiency:
40 / 0.8 = 50
50 * 5 = 250
250 / 37 = 6.8 lbs

Quite a difference there!

It's always a good idea to have extra dry malt extract on hand. It stores well and it comes in handy when you get low efficiency.

 

[bovinejony]

Dear DB,

I have a 30 quart pot and a 16 quart mini aluminum pot. I am looking to do a BIAB for a beer requiring 16lb's of grain. I think as long as I don't go over 1.25qt/lb I can mash into my 7.5 gallon pot, but I don't think I can sparge in my 4 gallon one. Thus, would it be feasible to do the following?

Mash into the 7.5gallon pot, say 1.25qt/gallon (rackers= 6.28gallons space taken).
Heat sparge water in the 4 gallon pot (maybe like 2.5 gallons).
Lift grain bag out of 7.5 gallon pot, get SWMBO to poor the wort into a food grade bucket, and then put sparge water into the now empty 7.5gal pot.
Put the grain bag back into the 7.5gal pot now filled with sparge water, stir.
Poor the wort from the bucket into the sparge liquid, and continue to boil steps.
Hopefully end within 6.5-7gallons and boil, hopefully not boiling over, and get it down to ~5.5gallons.

Is there a flaw to this design? TYIA

 

[jigidyjim]

Dear DB,

I have a 30 quart pot and a 16 quart mini aluminum pot. I am looking to do a BIAB for a beer requiring 16lb's of grain. I think as long as I don't go over 1.25qt/lb I can mash into my 7.5 gallon pot, but I don't think I can sparge in my 4 gallon one. Thus, would it be feasible to do the following?

Mash into the 7.5gallon pot, say 1.25qt/gallon (rackers= 6.28gallons space taken).
Heat sparge water in the 4 gallon pot (maybe like 2.5 gallons).
Lift grain bag out of 7.5 gallon pot, get SWMBO to poor the wort into a food grade bucket, and then put sparge water into the now empty 7.5gal pot.
Put the grain bag back into the 7.5gal pot now filled with sparge water, stir.
Poor the wort from the bucket into the sparge liquid, and continue to boil steps.
Hopefully end within 6.5-7gallons and boil, hopefully not boiling over, and get it down to ~5.5gallons.

Is there a flaw to this design? TYIA

2.5 gallons of sparge water probably won't cover 16lbs of grain. I could be wrong though.

Plus, holding a 16lb grain bag is going to be tiring (and messy...).

 

[bovinejony]

2.5 gallons of sparge water probably won't cover 16lbs of grain. I could be wrong though.

Plus, holding a 16lb grain bag is going to be tiring (and messy...).

Good point. Did some recalculating:

16lb's grain with 1.25qt/lb= 5 gallons
16*~0.125gallon/lb absorption = -2gallons, leaving 3 of wort
I prob want ~6.5 gallons max to boil, so I can sparge into 3.5 gallons. May not be enough still, but should be a decent amount of batch sparge volume.

As far as the 16lb grain bag, I still have to figure out how I'll manage the strength. No chance for a pulley, so maybe I'll figure out how to do a split mash or something.

 

[jigidyjim]

16lb's grain with 1.25qt/lb= 5 gallons
16*~0.125gallon/lb absorption = -2gallons, leaving 3 of wort
I prob want ~6.5 gallons max to boil, so I can sparge into 3.5 gallons. May not be enough still, but should be a decent amount of batch sparge volume.

I'm starting to leave my knowledge area, but my guess is that you are going to leave some sugars unextracted. A usual sparge is around 1.5x your mash water. In your case you are doing 0.7x your mash.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. My guess is that the thick sparge will lower your efficiency. But again, this is a guess. Or maybe your efficiency will be fine, you'll just be leaving some potential sugars in the grains that you could have extracted had you more water. Dunno... anyone else?

 

[agenthucky]

Good point. Did some recalculating:

16lb's grain with 1.25qt/lb= 5 gallons
16*~0.125gallon/lb absorption = -2gallons, leaving 3 of wort
I prob want ~6.5 gallons max to boil, so I can sparge into 3.5 gallons. May not be enough still, but should be a decent amount of batch sparge volume.

As far as the 16lb grain bag, I still have to figure out how I'll manage the strength. No chance for a pulley, so maybe I'll figure out how to do a split mash or something.

Perhaps try a smaller amount for your first try? I've never sparged with more than I've mashed, I regularly get 75% efficiency or higher.

 

[bottlebomber]

Perhaps try a smaller amount for your first try? I've never sparged with more than I've mashed, I regularly get 75% efficiency or higher.

I've seen utube videos on this, and they just put the whole of the grain in all the water. Why not just do that? Wont that get a lot of the sugars out?

 

[DeathBrewer]

I generally use the same amount of water (or even a bit less) for my sparge WHEN i use a 1.5qt/lb ratio.

For instance, I made 15 gallons of Helles the other day and I used the following:
26 lbs of grain
9.75 gallons of mash water
9 gallons of sparge water

I topped off as needed for my boil. You may get less efficiency by using less water, but you will never risk tannin extraction (unless your water is too hot, of course...my sparge water is never hotter than 165-168°F) and I still get over 75% efficiency with my mash tun setup.

bovinejony: You need a colander or very large strainer with that much grain. Then you can do a "pour-over" sparge, pouring the sparge water over the grain and into the original mash pot. Your transfer method would also work, or you may even want to just mash in a bucket (as long as it's food grade and can handle the heat) while you heat water for your sparge in the pot.

Still, that's a lot of grain and it is never necessary to use that much. No reason not to use some extract to get to the gravity you want and you should always keep some on hand anyway, just in case your efficiency is low.

This method was designed for making smaller beers. I would always recommend using a bit of extract with this method if you want a bigger beer.

 

[ThickHead]

Good point. Did some recalculating:

16lb's grain with 1.25qt/lb= 5 gallons
16*~0.125gallon/lb absorption = -2gallons, leaving 3 of wort
I prob want ~6.5 gallons max to boil, so I can sparge into 3.5 gallons. May not be enough still, but should be a decent amount of batch sparge volume.

As far as the 16lb grain bag, I still have to figure out how I'll manage the strength. No chance for a pulley, so maybe I'll figure out how to do a split mash or something.

This is fine. I think you are calculating a bit high on the absorption though. I would also advise you to go with a thinner mash and would go at least 1.5 qt/lb on my strike water. In the end it is better to end up with too much in the BK than too little. Once you have your boil volume you can adjust your boil time (to make the final volume) as well as adjust your hop additions accordingly.

Splitting the mash will also work just fine if you are worried about draining the bag. 16lbs will be heavy as hell, not only for you but for the bag as well. In fact, I usually only get about two uses from each bag due to the stress that grain/water weight puts on the bag during the process.

 

[steelersrbrun]

Death,

Great thread...thanks! I just spent the last 15 hours brewing two batches using this method it was perfect. The temp held for over an hour...I lost maybe 2 degrees in 90 minutes. I'm exhausted but I wanted to say thanks before I crash.

Cheers!!!!!

 

[adagiogray]

I am officially an AG convert now, thanks to this post. I unwittingly used this method almost identically with my two 5 gallon SS pots. My only problem is, with 12 lbs of grain, all I could fit in was about 2.5 gallons for the intial mash and I was at the brim, although I really was supposed to have used 3 or 3.5+ minimum. Since the grain soaked up water, I had to use even less (2 gallons) in the 'sparge' water, ending up with about 3.5 gallons between both pots for the boil... but I hit my recipe's starting gravity after topping up with cold water, so close enough, eh?

I love this method. Less fuss, easy cleanup, less gear.
The only thing I might have done differently would be to get a 6 gallon SS pot or 2 to be able to do a bigger/more effecient mash. Small headroom I get and understand, I had NONE and spilled over a bit.

 

[adagiogray]

*thumbs, even. I can edit the post, but apparently not the title.

 

[bottlebomber]

I just did this for the first time today... I really like the concept, but I think its pretty limited for what I like to brew. I did 15 lbs of grain, which easily fit along with 6 gallons of water in my kettle. However it took all of the strength in my right arm to hold up the grain bag while it drained, and get a strainer under it. My set up is up high so the top of my kettle is chest height. I wouldn't recommend this for beer above 1.060 or so. Plus the protein break material was pretty funky to deal with, there was about 3 inches of it in the bottom of my kettle after I was done. Is this still an issue with a mash tun?

 

[agenthucky]

I just did this for the first time today... I really like the concept, but I think its pretty limited for what I like to brew. I did 15 lbs of grain, which easily fit along with 6 gallons of water in my kettle. However it took all of the strength in my right arm to hold up the grain bag while it drained, and get a strainer under it. My set up is up high so the top of my kettle is chest height. I wouldn't recommend this for beer above 1.060 or so. Plus the protein break material was pretty funky to deal with, there was about 3 inches of it in the bottom of my kettle after I was done. Is this still an issue with a mash tun?

I can hit about 1.065 with about 12 lbs of grain. Sometimes I come out with just under 5 gallons, or for stronger beers 4.5 gallons. After doing it for some time and getting better efficiency I even added water to the fermenter to hit my target gravity. It's all about what your process can handle. Perhaps partial mashes will help you get to your desired OG.

 

[bottlebomber]

I can hit about 1.065 with about 12 lbs of grain. Sometimes I come out with just under 5 gallons, or for stronger beers 4.5 gallons. After doing it for some time and getting better efficiency I even added water to the fermenter to hit my target gravity. It's all about what your process can handle. Perhaps partial mashes will help you get to your desired OG.

What do you do about the break material? I was thinking maybe let it sit and siphoning off the top instead of draining it...