Double IPA recipe adjustments

[pdrewcock]

Hi all.
I'm new to this forum. I just completed a Brewer's Best Double IPA kit. Have been drinking it for a couple of weeks and really enjoy it. I made a change, since there was no dry hopping suggested in the recipe, I dry hopped 2 oz with cascade and I think it made a big difference. I don't like simply bittered IPAs.
In any case, althought the brew was a big success, it is difficult to drink more than one at 8.0 ABV and 100 ish IBU's It is also a wee bit too malty (FG 1.019) for an easy drinking IPA. I would like to do another batch but instead of the recommended 19 liters, make it 23 liters. Instead of the 4 oz of Columbus as bittering, use 2 oz divided as per the recipe. Then use the other 2 oz in the primary and another 2 oz of cascade in the secondary.
Hoping to get around 6.5 ABV and 60 IBU's.
I'm too new to this to intelligently use the calculators. I don't yet know what it all means, but I'm slowly learning.
Thanks for any help with this.
Cheers! Pete D.

 

[chickypad]

Might be easier if you post the whole recipe then someone can help with the calculations.

 

[pdrewcock]

Might be easier if you post the whole recipe then someone can help with the calculations.

Original: to make 19 liters
Malt:
9.9 lbs Light LME

Steeping Grains:
8 oz Caramel 40L
4 oz Carapils

Hops:
2 oz Columbus 60 min.
2 oz Columbus 15 min
2 oz Cascade 0 min.

As mentioned above:
I would like to do another batch but instead of the recommended 19 liters, make it 23 liters. Instead of the 4 oz of Columbus as bittering, use 2 oz divided as per the recipe. Then use the other 2 oz in the primary and another 2 oz of cascade in the secondary.
Hoping to get around 6.5 ABV and 60 IBU's.

Cheers! Pete D.

 

[chickypad]

I think your plan looks solid. I plugged it in Beersmith and you should come in around 1.060 and IBU's in the 55-70 range (depending on your boil volume) if you do 1 oz columbus at 60, 1 oz at 15 and then put the rest in the dry hop.

 

[DoWBrewer]

Generally speaking the higher alpha acid hops for shorter periods (5 to 7 days) are best for dry hopping. I think I would skip cascade and go for some other high alpha acid variety. Or add another high alpha variety in addition to the Cascade. It is good to combine hops (although probably not more than three) to get a layering affect with the hop aromas.

 

[LovesIPA]

I disagree. Cascade used as a dryhop is wonderful.

 

[AnOldUR]

Generally speaking the higher alpha acid hops for shorter periods (5 to 7 days) are best for dry hopping.

The advantage of high %AA hops is to add bitterness without contributing a lot of vegetal matter. Since no isomerization takes place in dry hopping the alpha acid content does not matter. What you should be looking at is the oil content of the hop.

And I agree with LovesIPA. Cascade is a great dry hop.

 

[pdrewcock]

The advantage of high %AA hops is to add bitterness without contributing a lot of vegetal matter. Since no isomerization takes place in dry hopping the alpha acid content does not matter. What you should be looking at is the oil content of the hop.

And I agree with LovesIPA. Cascade is a great dry hop.

So its the oils in the hops that give the piney/citrus/fruity flavours or scents? Is it also the oils that cloud the brew when it is refrigerated. I noticed my dry hopped brews always go into the fridge clear and come out cloudy.
But then I notice the same thing when I go into a pub...........:cross:

 

[pdrewcock]

By the way......
Why do the flavours/scents from dry hopping dissipate with time? In some cases within a few weeks. Is there a way to extend the time that the flavours stick around, or are there some other hop types that have better persistence?
Cheers! Pete D.

 

[LovesIPA]

Those are really good questions.

 

[DoWBrewer]

The advantage of high %AA hops is to add bitterness without contributing a lot of vegetal matter. Since no isomerization takes place in dry hopping the alpha acid content does not matter. What you should be looking at is the oil content of the hop.

And I agree with LovesIPA. Cascade is a great dry hop.

I agree that oil content is very important. I am not saying that Cascade is not good for dry hopping. For a double IPA, Cascade is not going to provide the kind if aroma needed without a massive amount. That is why I suggest combining it with another more powerful hop. If you were making a pale ale Cascade by itself would be a more appropriate choice.

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[AnOldUR]

Generally speaking the higher alpha acid hops for shorter periods (5 to 7 days) are best for dry hopping.

I am not saying that Cascade is not good for dry hopping. For a double IPA, Cascade is not going to provide the kind if aroma needed without a massive amount. That is why I suggest combining it with another more powerful hop.

You do realize that the alpha acid content of a hop does not contribute to aroma? And that the purpose for dry hopping it to add aroma?

Although lower in AA, Cascade has Myrcene levels that are on par with higher alpha hops like Citra so would not require using any greater volume to get the same results*. Combining hops at dry hopping can add complexity, but is strictly a matter of choice and what aromas you're trying to emphasize.



*
edit:
By "same results" I mean the same amount of aroma that a particular hop produces, not that Myrcene level can be equated to a specific aroma. It's the combination of oils that distinguish one hops aroma from another. But I stand by AA’s playing a minor part in contributing aroma.

(But you probably knew that. )

 

[DoWBrewer]

You do realize that the alpha acid content of a hop does not contribute to aroma? And that the purpose for dry hopping it to add aroma?

Although lower in AA, Cascade has Myrcene levels that are on par with higher alpha hops like Citra so would not require using any greater volume to get the same results. Combining hops at dry hopping can add complexity, but is strictly a matter of choice and what aromas you're trying to emphasize.

No need to get into a flame war, but the reality is that we don't actually know what produces good hop aroma. It is highly unlikely to be a single factor. Myrcene levels alone are not the only factor and you cannot say that AA level does not play a role because it is still being researched.

Here is what we do know, very few if any double IPAs rely on Cascade as a primary aroma hop. Most of them are dry hopping with high alpha hops. You will not get the same hop aroma with an ounce of Cascade as an ounce of Citra. That is utter non-sense not based in research or fact.

Sent from my HTC One using Home Brew mobile app

 

[pdrewcock]

I think your plan looks solid. I plugged it in Beersmith and you should come in around 1.060 and IBU's in the 55-70 range (depending on your boil volume) if you do 1 oz columbus at 60, 1 oz at 15 and then put the rest in the dry hop.

Thanks chickypad. I downloaded the trial version of BeerSmith 2 and tried it out. When I plug in the relevant info for the original recipe, the results come back quite different from what I experienced. I suppose it takes some time to learn the ins-and-outs. Do you use BeerSmith as a starting point for most of your recipes?

Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have decided to go with my modified recipe and perhaps add some citra as dry hops also. I have to see what's available here in the great white north.

Cheers! Pete D.

 

[chickypad]

Thanks chickypad. I downloaded the trial version of BeerSmith 2 and tried it out. When I plug in the relevant info for the original recipe, the results come back quite different from what I experienced. I suppose it takes some time to learn the ins-and-outs. Do you use BeerSmith as a starting point for most of your recipes?

I use Beersmith for all my recipes. It does take some time to set up for your system and equipment but then it becomes fairly easy to use. I find it most useful for all grain batches where efficiency, volumes, etc can be very different system to system.

I plugged in your recipe for 6 gallons finished not accounting for any trub loss. The IBU's were estimated based on default for columbus but your actual AA may vary so you should plug that in. A partial boil with top off will change your IBU so you also need to enter all that in with your actual numbers.

 

[pdrewcock]

I use Beersmith for all my recipes. It does take some time to set up for your system and equipment but then it becomes fairly easy to use. I find it most useful for all grain batches where efficiency, volumes, etc can be very different system to system.

I plugged in your recipe for 6 gallons finished not accounting for any trub loss. The IBU's were estimated based on default for columbus but your actual AA may vary so you should plug that in. A partial boil with top off will change your IBU so you also need to enter all that in with your actual numbers.

Thanks a lot. I'll work with it and see what happens.
Cheers! Pete D.

 

[Ramitt]

No need to get into a flame war,

Disagreement on a topic is not a flame war, it is a discussion. That is something that happens in forums.