does this look infected #65677847765

[Krazykripple]

sorry to be making another infection thread but i think my porter might be infected with lacto or something similar, i racked it into a bucket because i wanted my big fermenter clear for another batch. should i dump it?

 

[Shaneoco1981]

It looks infected to me, but I honestly don't know. Someone with some more experience might be able to answer it more effectively. There was a thread yesterday or a few days ago that had a pic that looked exactly like that. I think the general consensus was that it was infected. Let me look for it.

 

[Draken]

Oh yeah that's something other than yeast. Now you need to start being concerned on if your big fermentor is infected or just the bucket that brew is in now. Your probably going to have to toss it unless you only plan on using it for lacto brews in the future.

 

[homebrewdad]

Yep, infected - almost certainly lacto.

 

[Shaneoco1981]

Where did you get the bucket? Wondering if it was used for anything other then beer.

 

[Krazykripple]

Thanks for all the quick replies. My fears seem to be confirmed. I think my 5 gal one must have it too. Is there any way to clean it off plastic or do I need some new equipment? Would this brew be worth drinking or should I toss it

 

[Krazykripple]

Where did you get the bucket? Wondering if it was used for anything other then beer.

i got it new from the local hardware shop, it's type 2 LDPE which is apparently food safe.

 

[Draken]

Thanks for all the quick replies. My fears seem to be confirmed. I think my 5 gal one must have it too. Is there any way to clean it off plastic or do I need some new equipment? Would this brew be worth drinking or should I toss it

Rack from underneath it and find out? Or age it a few months and try it then. Buckets are cheap, I'd just get new ones.. along with anything else plastic that touched the brew.

 

[WilliamWS]

I'd throw out any plastic that's come into contact with any bugs you don't want to keep. If there are any scratches, etc. you'll never get it properly sanitized. Luckily, though, plastic's cheap.

 

[midfielder5]

I'd just get new ones.. along with anything else plastic that touched the brew.

Yes. All plastic should be segregated as sour and put away in a separate sour bin. and get new plastics (buckets, siphons, tubing, airlocks etc) for non-sour beer.

where do you think the infection came from?

 

[homebrewdad]

Buckets are cheap, I'd just get new ones.. along with anything else plastic that touched the brew.

This. It can be difficult - and sometimes impossible - to ever get a bug out of your plastic. The cost of the ingredients and time you lose in one batch of beer is probably more than you spend in new buckets and hoses.

 

[Krazykripple]

Yes. All plastic should be segregated as sour and put away in a separate sour bin. and get new plastics (buckets, siphons, tubing, airlocks etc) for non-sour beer.

where do you think the infection came from?

my airlock didn't have a proper seal and i kept opening the lid to have a peek because i'm impatient

 

[midfielder5]

my airlock didn't have a proper seal and i kept opening the lid to have a peek because i'm impatient

While you should stop doing that, lol, tell us what your cleaning/sanitizing regimen is.

Do you top off with unboiled tap water?

 

[Krazykripple]

While you should stop doing that, lol, tell us what your cleaning/sanitizing regimen is.

Do you top off with unboiled tap water?

I scrub everything with some "brewers detergent" that I got from my LHBS then fill my fermenter with no rinse sanitizer and put any equipment I'm going to be using in there and leave it while I'm getting everything else ready. I think my last batch had the beginnings of something similar but I ignored it. That was before i joined this site. yes i topped off with cold tap water

 

[Fid]

I say that you just put it in a dark corner and forget about it for a few months and see what comes out. A Sour Porter? Why not? Maybe rack it into another vessel with some oak chips or something for a Sour Oaked Porter? I don't know... a random infection in a dark beer sounds kinda fun to me. More fun than random infections in other dark places anyways....

 

[Krazykripple]

sounds like fun! i just might do that

 

[midfielder5]

I presume you dont actually "scrub" the plastic!
(scratches are easy to do and leave places for the bad guys to hide).
Also look at star-san for sanitizing. Maybe your no rinse solution (brand name?) isnt actually sanitizing but another cleaner.
Lastly, people do top off with unboiled water but I would boil it first, cover, set aside to cool (usually overnight), then place in your sanitized fermenter before starting (if you have only 1 boil kettle). Everything that touches the wort, post-boil, should be sanitized. Boiling for 10 min sanitizes the water and drives off chlorine so it should taste better.
good luck!

 

[Krazykripple]

thanks for the advice, looks like i'm off to the LHBS for a spending spree.

BTW midfielder5 i use Brewcraft supplies since that's what is easily available in my area

 

[Fid]

Have fun. And keep us posted on the results if you decide to let this thing sit and get all funky!:rockin:

 

[gmcastil]

I scrub everything...

I suspect this may be part of your problem.

 

[Doctor_Wily]

I am also curious if you are scrubbing with an abrasive pad or something similar since that can/will scratch plastic.

 

[Krazykripple]

I am also curious if you are scrubbing with an abrasive pad or something similar since that can/will scratch plastic.

no, just the brush i normally use to do my dishes, but even that might be too much

 

[idahobrew]

You shouldn't need a brush, especially one used for cleaning your dishes. All my cleaning supplies, sponges etc. are strictly for my brewing, nothing else like washing dishes, floors, counters or any other general use. Good luck on your next batch.

 

[Jaybird]

Looks like the start of a good Sour to me.. Sour Cherry porter? I just had a killer one over the weekend..The guy started with a porter or I think it was a stout but anyway. fermented it then soured it and added cherries every month for a year! It was KILLER!!! nature may have just done you a favor!
Just a thought..
Cheers
Jay

 

[gmcastil]

Glass and plastic carboys don't need to be scrubbed if you are using your cleanser properly.

Plastic carboys, implements, hoses, etc. should never be scrubbed - doing so can produce scratches in the material which bacteria can get lodged in and eventually cause infections.

 

[Poobah58]

I'm with Jaybird. Add some cherries!

 

[soberJim]

Yes.. I use a plastic primary, no bad at all. Have a rinse-after-use sanitiser, of which there are no problems. But I don't scrub my gear, I let it soak in sanitiser for at least 2 hours then rub it. I find just about anything comes off (really dark sugars used for brewing might stain plastic, treacle for example but other than that all good). From the posts I've read without being able to fully relate, I'd say leave it. But if it smells like crap, a taste of it now is gonna leave you with a really bad taste. So if enough storage, see how it goes. If not enough storage, ask a few mates at work or whatever if they have empties, then use what space they had for the bottles. Hey, if it doesn't explode around them I'm sure they wanna taste it! its all good, just grab a beer and get so drunk you can't taste it, let alone compare it.. :guilty:

 

[Homercidal]

I clicked on this thread expecting to think, Yup, another noob overly concerned about their beer!"

Imagine my surprise to see a nice pellicle formation! An ACTUAL INFECTION!

Nice job! I did not read all the comments, but I would guess some of them mention turning this into an opportunity at a nice sour. Personally I can't stand sour beers, but if you like 'em, why not go for it?

 

[Pie_Man]

You may want to consider moving to a glass carboy, or plastic better bottle. Lots of people use plastic buckets, and that's fine. If you're like me and you want to see your beer fermenting, the traditional carboy is the way to go. I find glass is more forgiving in terms of being able to scrub the carboy while avoiding scratches. There are certainly pros and cons to both types, just my two cents.

Like others have mentioned, I'd keep the beer around for awhile and see how it turns out. Depending on the type of infection, you might end up with a good sour beer and this could be a happy little accident.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Lots of solid advise... Definitely replace all the plastics that have come in contact with the bugs, and don't 'scrub' the new stuff. Just soak in PBW or Oxyclean and hot water, rinse and sanitize with StarSan (definitely StarSan!!). That's all it takes.
And second, with the beer, whoever suggested a sour cherry or sour oaked porter has a great idea. Never let something like this end up wasted without at least seeing where you can go with it. Some sour brews are absolutely amazing, and a soured dark beer with something like cherries or currants may be one of the best brews you've made, even if it wasn't your original plan. I'd definitely ride it out and see what tasty gift mother nature gave you.

 

[gmcastil]

Yes.. I use a plastic primary, no bad at all. Have a rinse-after-use sanitiser, of which there are no problems. But I don't scrub my gear, I let it soak in sanitiser for at least 2 hours then rub it.

Not to be hyper-critical or anything, but sanitizer is not the same thing as a cleaner or detergent. Simply soaking your gear, particularly plastic gear, in sanitizer is not really the best way to clean it. Plus, long periods of time in sanitizer can actually lead to damage of plastic parts.

I suspect that if you used something like PBW or Oxyclean to clean your parts, you wouldn't have to rub it all.

 

[Mase]

You could also ferment in a bag using the bum bucket. Makes yeast harvesting and clean up a snap as well.

 

[Krazykripple]

the sour cherry sounds like it could be good although i've never tried a sour beer. i have about 10 Litres (2.5 gallons?) of the infected porter, how many cherries should i use? would the canned variety be ok since they're out of season down under? i'm glad i don't have to ditch this right away

 

[Fid]

I honestly can't give any real great advise as I've never brewed a sour so I really only know what I've read.
Check this site out though:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html
Theres alot of good info on fermenting sours along with a list of recipes to look at for some ideas. If I'm not mistaken he is also a fellow HBT'r.

 

[microbusbrewery]

the sour cherry sounds like it could be good although i've never tried a sour beer. i have about 10 Litres (2.5 gallons?) of the infected porter, how many cherries should i use? would the canned variety be ok since they're out of season down under? i'm glad i don't have to ditch this right away

Assuming it's lacto or some other "good" organism, I'd let it go a few months before adding cherries. Cherries can be expensive so let it go for a few months then taste it to make sure it's worth adding cherries to. Canned, frozen, or even dried pie/tart cherries should be fine. Just make sure they don't have any additives or preservatives that could cause problems in beer. With dried, sometimes they spray them with a light coating of oil (e.g vegetable, sunflower) to keep them from sticking. Do a minimum of 1 pound per gallon.

 

[SGFBeerBuzz]

You may want to consider moving to a glass carboy, or plastic better bottle. Lots of people use plastic buckets, and that's fine. If you're like me and you want to see your beer fermenting, the traditional carboy is the way to go.

I've always understood that breaking that pellicle will help acetobacter gain a hold an turn your beer into more of a vinegar sour rather than a lactic or Brett sour. The pellicle is there to protect the beer from oxygen, and racking to another container would not only break the pellicle but also introduce additional oxygen and bacteria to the batch. I would think that would be undesirable.

 

[Pie_Man]

I've always understood that breaking that pellicle will help acetobacter gain a hold an turn your beer into more of a vinegar sour rather than a lactic or Brett sour. The pellicle is there to protect the beer from oxygen, and racking to another container would not only break the pellicle but also introduce additional oxygen and bacteria to the batch. I would think that would be undesirable.

I meant that the OP may want to consider using (moving to) a carboy in the future as they asked about new equipment and mentioned they like to check on the fermentation. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not an expert on sours (except for drinking them), but I believe you are correct. I think you're supposed to wait until the pellicle "falls" into the beer before doing anything.

 

[SGFBeerBuzz]

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Fennis]

no, just the brush i normally use to do my dishes, but even that might be too much

Is it a similar brush or the same one you use to do your dishes? If it is the same one, that is a huge part of the problem. There is an episode of mythbusters where they did a test on household objects and bacteria, and the number 1 worst source of bacteria was the sponge you use to clean your dishes. So, I imagine a brush used to do dishes harbors about the same types and amount of bacteria.

To clean my plastic fermenter, I use a microfiber wash cloth to do all the 'scrubbing'. It cleans without scratching and when I am done, I just throw it in with the laundry. Then I sanitize with a no-rinse sanitizer such as Star San or Idophor. I haven't had an infected batch yet doing it this way.

 

[soberJim]

I meant that the OP may want to consider using (moving to) a carboy in the future as they asked about new equipment and mentioned they like to check on the fermentation. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not an expert on sours (except for drinking them), but I believe you are correct. I think you're supposed to wait until the pellicle "falls" into the beer before doing anything.

I've been told to bottle before the pellicle even forms, yet after final gravity is reached; that creating a better base for the carbonation side of things, giving a head most bought beers have.. but I really don't think it makes a massive difference unless open brewing, where there's a more definite time frame of when the brew should get bottled. Apparently... Same source there, so I'm unsure. Maybe this whole message is a waste of internet space, and this explanation isn't making it any less.