Do you sparge or dunk?

[tknice]

I had a very similar process filthy, when I brewed on the stovetop. Now that I think about it, I always did a dunk sparge with a second pot just like you described. I guess it changed moving to 10 gallon batches with larger volumes of water.

 

[Gavin C]

Just curious what techniques work efficiently. I usually try to have my water levels to five gallons for a 3 gallon batch to accommodate the loss from the grain but as I get into bigger abv ales I can't handle that much water in my kettle. What exactly is the dunk method?

Sorry in advance if this post is stupid

Think of your sticky sweet-wort-filled bag of grain as a muddy sponge you used to clean your car windshield. it's sitting in a bucket of muddy water. You want to get the mud out of the sponge.

Mud=Sugar
Sponge=Grain/Bag

• Sponge sits in bucket of muddy water (your mash)
• Pick up sponge and let the muddy water drain out. (pull the grain-bag)
• Squeeze the snot out of the sponge (squeeze the grain-bag)

That's where I stop because I don't typically sparge.

(Here comes your dunk-sparge)

• Dunk the sponge in a second water-filled bucket
• Squeeze the sponge a bunch when it's under the water and slosh it around (that's you stirring the crap out of the grains in the bag in the pot of water)
• Lift out the sponge (pull the bag a second time)
• Squeeze the snot out of it a second time (it's now a much cleaner sponge with very little mud in its material)
• Add the contents of the second bucket to the first (sparge runnings added to first runnings for want of a better term)

Discard sponge and boil the muddy water down till it's muddier (your boil)

Hope that explains a dunk sparge

 

[Gavin C]

Just because you are using a bag as tool to separate the wort from the grains doesn't mean you should use BIAB as your mash profile in beersmith.

Completely agree

I see the default equipment profiles as a guide to get you started.

As I only ever use a bag as a manifold my grain absorption will be same regardless of the type of mash I employ. I just changed the grain-absorption settings to be the same for all mashes regardless of equipment profile.

The added BIAB option is just that, an add on for folks who want to brew with different setups with different grain-absorptions. One setup with a sparge, one without and a different grain-absorption rate.



Regarding the trub-loss figure in Beersmith-v- @pricelessbrewing 's great calculator it really comes down to preference as to how you want to account for this.

I use Beersmith so use a fixed value for trub-loss. I have this set at 0.27 gallons. Remember this value can be inferred from other volume measures. It is very useful to measure fixed losses like kettle dead-space (0 in my setup) or plate-chiller and hoses dead-space to help you work it out.

In a hypothetical recipe with zero hops the vast majority of this trub loss will be accounted for by losses to my chiller and wort volume remaining in the kettle as once my target volume in the FV is reached the transfer of wort is stopped.

In a different recipe with 6 ounces of hops the trub loss will be again accounted for by losses to the chiller and almost zero volume in the kettle. The greater hop-bill will have soaked up the extra wort.

Either way I get 5.5 gallons to the FV and my recipes are tailored to that volumetric goal.

 

[pretzelb]

If you can show me where to adjust the grain absorption rate from within the profile without changing all the other recipes from options, or to add a sparge to a BIAB profile, I'm all ears as I spent an inordinate amount of time trying it. Screenshot please if possible.

sorry OP, kind of derailing your thread here

Why would the grain absorption rate change for your brew house?

 

[chickypad]

Why would the grain absorption rate change for your brew house?

I brew smaller indoor BIAB batches and I brew large batches on a 3 vessel system fly sparge system.

 

[doug293cz]

I brew smaller indoor BIAB batches and I brew large batches on a 3 vessel system fly sparge system.

How does grain absorption even figure in when fly sparging? I thought fly spargers stopped the sparge run off when the grain bed was still covered with water. Do any fly spargers actually fully drain the MLT into the BK?

Brew on

 

[chickypad]

How does grain absorption even figure in when fly sparging? I thought fly spargers stopped the sparge run off when the grain bed was still covered with water. Do any fly spargers actually fully drain the MLT into the BK?

Brew on

I do let mine run within a gallon or so of being dry, though that may not be the proper technique. It's just so much wasted water to keep the grainbed completely wet. You're right though ,for those batches it's not as crucial as long as I don't run out. What I should have said is that I have a regular tun with false bottom that I both fly sparge and batch sparge wich. Lately I've been batch sparging to save time, which is how I found out that changing the default setting in options actually alters already entered recipes.

 

[pretzelb]

I brew smaller indoor BIAB batches and I brew large batches on a 3 vessel system fly sparge system.

Are you squeezing the bag? I can see that affecting the absorption rate. Otherwise I would think grains at like a sponge and absorb a fixed amount.

 

[doug293cz]

Are you squeezing the bag? I can see that affecting the absorption rate. Otherwise I would think grains at like a sponge and absorb a fixed amount.

Squeezing most definitely affects absorption rate (gal/lb, l/kg.) However, absorption rate only comes into play when completely draining the MLT (or bag.) It you purposely leave excess liquid in the MLT, then there really is no definable absorption rate.

Absorption rates for traditional MLT's are about 0.11 - 0.13 gal/lb, for suspended, but unsqueezed bags about 0.08 - 0.10 gal/lb, and for squeezed bags about 0.05 - 0.08 gal/lb. Of course there will be some exceptions to the ranges, but the trend is valid. The more wort gets left in the grain, the more sugar gets left with the grain, and the lower the mash efficiency (all else being equal.)

Brew on

 

[chickypad]

Are you squeezing the bag? I can see that affecting the absorption rate. Otherwise I would think grains at like a sponge and absorb a fixed amount.

I squeeze the bags and get about .08 gal per lb absorption. In the regular tun it seems to be about .125 gal per lb. So the first time I did a batch sparge on the big system I forgot to adjust back the rate and was almost a gallon and a half short on sparge water.

I didn't mean to make such a big thing of this, it's not that hard to calculate by hand and it's really not a deal breaker for me as I otherwise like Beersmith. I was just trying to point out to the previous poster who was having trouble with their reproducibility that BS doesn't allow for BIAB with sparge without doing some work around.

 

[filthyastronaut]

I had a very similar process filthy, when I brewed on the stovetop. Now that I think about it, I always did a dunk sparge with a second pot just like you described. I guess it changed moving to 10 gallon batches with larger volumes of water.

It would definitely be difficult with twice the volume, unless you had a spacious area with propane burners and some kind of bag pulley, but then you eliminate the convenience and cost-effective nature of BIAB. At that point, might was well have a more "traditional" system.

 

[pretzelb]

I didn't mean to make such a big thing of this, it's not that hard to calculate by hand and it's really not a deal breaker for me as I otherwise like Beersmith. I was just trying to point out to the previous poster who was having trouble with their reproducibility that BS doesn't allow for BIAB with sparge without doing some work around.

I'm at fault too because I got distracted and went off topic too. I rarely looked at those factors before and was having fun with the thought process. Ah well, carry on.