I am doing a Hefe this weekend and I would like to try to do a decoction mash. My question is with the quality of grains these days is it going to make a beer that is that much better. I would love to try it and probably still will but I am just wondering.
Decoction Mashing worth it?
- Thread starter billk911
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longke
Well-Known Member
Would you microwave a burger expecting it to taste the same as off the grill? The decoctions add the color and flavors of melanoidins.
axeman9182
Well-Known Member
I'll be brewing a hefeweizen in the next week or so, and the only reason I don't plan on doing a decoction is because I'm still new to all grain and trying to get my basic process down. If you're comfortable with general brewing procedures though, from what I've read decoctions are highly recommended for hefes
I did an experiment where different brewers brewed the same recipe as a decoction and as an infusion mash. After blind tasting, infusion and "no preference" won out over the decocted beers. You can read the results here starting on pg. 25....
http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
bernerbrau
Well-Known Member
The slideshow gives the overall results, but I don't see results for individual styles... I'm curious as to what the exact numbers are on the German Pils, for example, since that's a style traditionally brewed with a lengthy decoction schedule.
Pilgarlic
Well-Known Member
My opinion, FWIW: Decoction mashing is "worth it" in the sense that an all manual, film camera is "worth it". You use it because you like the process, not because you need it to get your desired results. My opinion, FWIW.
billk911
Well-Known Member
I think I am going to give it a try. I watched the video from BrauKaiser on you tube and it is something I want to be able to do. Is it worth it? Who knows. But it looks cool to do and it is something different. I will know soon enough what I think.
badhabit
Well-Known Member
I enjoy Decoc on all of the Braverian types and feel that it is well worth the effort. I believe that the reason that I feel that way is that using the Decoc is the only way that I am able to pull an extreemly malyt flavor. All that being said I make my Heff as an ale and do not Decoc it. I just am not looking for the malty flavor so mouch in that brew. I let the yeast do the talking.
ChemE
Well-Known Member
I mash out decoct all my beers and enjoy a higher efficiency as a result. One less infusion means I've got more water to sparge with. And don't let the process scare you, my first AG was a double decocted MO/Fuggle SMaSH and it was sublime after six months.
maskednegator
Well-Known Member
There are no specialty meats that you can add to a burger to get what the grill adds. This is not the case with grains.
bernerbrau
Well-Known Member
I decoction mash most of my beers, especially the malty ones.
For me, the biggest issue is the time it adds to my brew day. I have a tendency to pull a far thinner decoction than I need, and I end up well below my target temperature. This always takes a lot of time to correct. I also have a tendency to badly overshoot the saccharification rest on my decoctions, which screws up my conversion and makes my mash a little stickier, which leads to stuck sparges. I'd say on average, a multi-step decoction mash adds 3-4 hours to my brew day.
As such I'm considering going back to single infusions with a small amount of melanoidin malt.
However, I always do a thin decoction mashout regardless of the beer. I could never hit proper mash-out temperatures with a step mash, and decoction mashouts improve my accuracy and help my numbers.
For me, the biggest issue is the time it adds to my brew day. I have a tendency to pull a far thinner decoction than I need, and I end up well below my target temperature. This always takes a lot of time to correct. I also have a tendency to badly overshoot the saccharification rest on my decoctions, which screws up my conversion and makes my mash a little stickier, which leads to stuck sparges. I'd say on average, a multi-step decoction mash adds 3-4 hours to my brew day.
As such I'm considering going back to single infusions with a small amount of melanoidin malt.
However, I always do a thin decoction mashout regardless of the beer. I could never hit proper mash-out temperatures with a step mash, and decoction mashouts improve my accuracy and help my numbers.
I tried a triple decoction for a weizenbock and I don't think it added anything. Like someone else mentioned - add .25 - .75 lbs of melanoidin and save yourself the trouble. Or try it and see if you enjoy the process.
I have a strong preference for super malty (as opposed to super hoppy) beers and I usually add melanoidin and munich to get the results.
For all my German wheat beers I subsitute munich for a signifigant portion of the pale malt or pilsner. It makes it a little darker but not much (if you use the 5L German munich) and the taste is well worth it.
I have a strong preference for super malty (as opposed to super hoppy) beers and I usually add melanoidin and munich to get the results.
For all my German wheat beers I subsitute munich for a signifigant portion of the pale malt or pilsner. It makes it a little darker but not much (if you use the 5L German munich) and the taste is well worth it.
I have a spreadsheet with the results for each beer, but this website won't let me upload it. I'll try to get around to posting it somewhere.
Northcalais40
Well-Known Member
If you want to do one, just do one. It probably won't make a big difference in the final product. There are so many variables involved in my brew days (like mash temp, grain type, mash duration, sparge parameters, the list goes on) , I can't see how decoctions can end up being the crucial taste maker for a recipe.
I use decoctions on occasion as a way to mash out with out adding more water.
There are many brewers who swear by decoctions. Many swear by single infusion. With experience you'll end up with your own default method. I think it is worth while to play around with different techniques to add to, or leave out of your arsenal.
I use decoctions on occasion as a way to mash out with out adding more water.
There are many brewers who swear by decoctions. Many swear by single infusion. With experience you'll end up with your own default method. I think it is worth while to play around with different techniques to add to, or leave out of your arsenal.
This is exactly why I've stopped doing decoctions. The one time I tried to compensate for my tendency to pull too thin a decoction, I scorched the mash. Plus, all that mucking around in my main mash was causing its temperature to drop like a stone. Maybe I just don't know how to do decoctions properly, but I can get much more consistent results with a series of infusions.
I don't know all that much about the process, but I was listening to an interview with Charlie Bamforth on the Beersmith podcast the other day, and his opinion was that with the highly modified nature of today's grains, decoction is not really necessary.
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2011/04/20/mashing-with-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-14/
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2011/04/20/mashing-with-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-14/
Pilgarlic
Well-Known Member
In "New Brewing Lager Beer", after an exhaustive explanation of the process, the late, great Greg Noonan said the same. In fact, he said, decoction mashing could cause problems with fully modified malts because the process would strip the wort of necessary proteins. I do want to do a decoction one day, but when I do it will be with a partially modified pilsner malt. It's hard to find anything, including pilsner malt, that's not fully modified today.
If you ask me decoctions are just like cooking, it takes a certain touch to get the carmelization right. If you take 10 people and have all of them make caramelized onions using instructions they read off of the internet, you'll get 10 different shades of orange/brown with 10 different levels of sweetness. I've done a lot of decoction mashes myself, sometimes it seems there isn't anything different than a single infusion and other times the malt character has been a lot more vibrant and delicious... and the more i do the better they get. The variables for me have been; less or more water in the kettle, more or less vigorous boil, and how long the grains spend boiling. I have book on Bavarian Helles that alleges a particular German brewery boils their final mashout decoction for an hour... I'd like to know which one it is so I can taste their beer!
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way, but with all the inconsistent opinions I bet I'm right. Do it!
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way, but with all the inconsistent opinions I bet I'm right. Do it!
