Critique a complex IIPA Recipe

[Bowtiebrewery]

Hi all, I normally stick to some base recipes here and try to modify one thing at a time, but I really wanted to try my hand at creating a more complex fruity IIPA. Can you all check it out... I'm sure I could scale back the variety of hops but I was just shooting for something that was really going to give me a tropical fruit aroma and hop taste:



Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 75 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 8 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.057
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.082
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 8.87%
IBU (tinseth): 81.17
SRM (morey): 11.16

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (77.4%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (6.5%)
1 lb - German - CaraFoam (6.5%)
1 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (6.5%)
0.5 lb - German - CaraRed (3.2%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Summit, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.89
0.75 oz - Crystal, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.3, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 9.65
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 14.8
0.75 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 11.1
0.5 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 8.09
0.5 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 4.14
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 6.5
1 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at °F
1 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at °F
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at °F

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 20 qt, Mash In
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 45 min, Amount: 16 qt, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F


Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2015-04-24 13:11 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2015-04-24 13:11 UTC

 

[Redhawk96]

I'm not sure what hops you have on hand, or how easily you can get them, but my advice would be to move all the additions but a fraction to very late in the boil, whirlpool, and dry hopping. I have been working on perfecting my IPA over the last few years, looking for big tropical fruit, citusy hop taste and aroma, and after 20 or so brews, and lots of reading and advice here on HBT, it is my belief that is the best method to achieve what you describe. I think you will get lots of other similar advice on here.

I would do something like this:
0.5 - 1 oz. @ 60 (or 1-2 oz. as FWH, my preference, but it is a personal taste thing)
2 oz. @ 15 or 10 min.
3-5 oz. in a 20 min. whirlpool/hopstand
2-4 oz. dry hops for 6 days.

Which hops to add when is where your taste comes in. I love Citra, Amarillo, Simcoe, Columbus, and Cascade and I'm so-so on Summit. The Citra/Amarillo combo for whirlpool and dry hopping is my favorite. I've never used the other hops you have mentioned.

My only other advice would be to maybe back off on the 60L, maybe only 0.5 lbs., and also maybe mash a little lower, 151 or 150 to make the wort more fermentable, dry it out a bit, and let the hops shine. Ignore this advice if you want that strong malt backbone, once again, this is personal taste.

 

[NathPowe]

Just my two cents - 16% crystal in an Imperial IPA seems really high. For that OG I'd go with something between 0% and 3%.

I agree with the above poster on hops - I'd definitely want dry-hops in an Imperial IPA. Also agree on mash temp - 148-150, especially if you're going to keep all that crystal.

Again, just my thoughts since you asked. You know your taste preferences better than I do.

Cheers and enjoy the brew.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Thanks, I was hoping to keep this DIPA a bit more malty hence the 152 target.
I think removing half the 60L is good suggestion. I thought it might be a bit high and was originally considering .5#
I was also considering eliminating Amarillo and Simcoe all-together and moving the Whirlpool additions to just 3 of Falconers Flight, Pallisade, and Citra.


My overall goal is a sticky pungent DIPA where the alcohol is pretty much completely masked. Malty and Fruity all the same... My only worry is too much malt background might give a slick mouth feel to it, and I definitely didnt want that.

 

[m00ps]

My last DIPA only had 6oz of any sort of crystal malt is a bit above 9.0% and I can't even get a hint of any sort of alcohol bite even if I swish it around in my mouth. All I can taste is hops. I used just under a pound with the vast majority going in right at the whirlpool like others have suggested. I'd take their suggestions and cut back on the malty flavors. I would also suggest mashing around 148 and sub some of the malts for a pound of sugar to get the body thinner. You want it to be a DIPA not a hoppy strong ale. That's what gives DIPAs their drinkability

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I will be dry hopping. I totally forgot to add that in there though. I was thinking basically Falconers Flight and Citra for the Dry hop

 

[judsonp]

A few ideas:
* You could probably reduce the variety of hops. I'm not quite sure what the Summit, Crystal, and Palisade are getting you?
* You can also simplify your hopping schedule a little. You should be just fine with 3 hop additions: start of boil (or FWH), 15 min (or 20), and whirlpool.
* Did I say 3? I meant 4. I don't see dry hops listed in your recipe. I think they are probably necessary for a big fruity aroma.
* That's a lot of crystal and a high mash temperature. You could scale back the crystal substantially and add sugar, making it much more hop-focused.

I think probably my favorite IIPA is this Enjoy By clone. It's certainly a tropical-fruit hop bomb. I'm not suggesting following the recipe, but the malt bill and the general approach to hopping works really well.

 

[kh54s10]

I agree with the adjustments suggested. Maybe somewhere in between on the mash temperature.

Personally I would look at the flavor profiles of the hops and select just 3 maybe 4 that give what you are looking for. It seems just too much going on.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

OK altered this time removed some other extraneous hops and bumped up the 2 row and bumped down the C60. Also ammended the Boil Kettle Volume as I was off by about 1 gallon. Did not include the proposed dry hops though. They will be part of it though

Suggest removing Summit and Cascade and bumping Columbus to the bittering addition?
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 75 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.067
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.085
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 9.19%
IBU (tinseth): 86.01
SRM (morey): 8.97

FERMENTABLES:
13 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (81.3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (3.1%)
1 lb - German - CaraFoam (6.3%)
1 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (6.3%)
0.5 lb - German - CaraRed (3.1%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Summit, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 32.67
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 34.23
0.5 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 4.04
0.5 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 5.38
0.5 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 3.77
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 5.92
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 20 qt, Mash In
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 45 min, Amount: 16 qt, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

 

[kombat]

That's still an awful lot of unfermentables, particularly for a higher-gravity beer. Many purists will argue that you must include at least some plain sugar/dextrose in an IIPA (I'm one of them) to help really dry it out. What do you really hope to get form the Munich 10L and the CaraRed?

I'd go 80% 2-row, 10% dextrose, 5% CaraFoam for head-retention, and 5% Crystal 60L for colour. I also agree with the comments regarding hop additions. Do 1 bittering addition (why Summit? Why not Magnum or Warrior?), a bunch at 10 minutes (although I think you have way too many different kinds - they're all just going to get muddled together), and a big flameout addition. And of course, dry hopping. I would limit it to 4 different types of hops, though, including the bittering addition. I'd also mash low (148° F) to help with attenuation, and pitch at least 2 packets of rehydrated US-05.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I wouldn't use the carafoam or the Munich, and add some corn sugar.

Signed,
Guy who made a too malty DIPA recently.

 

[hopbrad]

this new adjustment looks better on the grain bill.
i usually keep the cara/crystal even lower or completely out, 1/2lb total. caraRed is C40-60 as well. so you have a 1lb.
hops give plenty of head retention so you could cut down or out the carafoam. maybe go 1/2 lb if its body your going for. but i percieve that mouth coating hoppiness as body so i usually keep my IPAs and IIPAs 95% base malt or if all base malt 50% MO and 50% 2-row. and sometimes a lb of table sugar
fine with the munich. will help with some color and character.

hops id maybe put some of the columbus in the 10 min mark. i like my ipas tropical with some of that mouth coating dank and a tiny bit of pine.
summit is fine to bitter, i usually use Warrior, Magnum or summit. sometimes columbus.

OK altered this time removed some other extraneous hops and bumped up the 2 row and bumped down the C60. Also ammended the Boil Kettle Volume as I was off by about 1 gallon. Did not include the proposed dry hops though. They will be part of it though

Suggest removing Summit and Cascade and bumping Columbus to the bittering addition?
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 75 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.067
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.085
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 9.19%
IBU (tinseth): 86.01
SRM (morey): 8.97

FERMENTABLES:
13 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (81.3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (3.1%)
1 lb - German - CaraFoam (6.3%)
1 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (6.3%)
0.5 lb - German - CaraRed (3.1%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Summit, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 32.67
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 34.23
0.5 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 4.04
0.5 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 5.38
0.5 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 3.77
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 5.92
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 20 qt, Mash In
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 45 min, Amount: 16 qt, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Thanks.... I was hoping to get a bit of malty backbone from the Munich 10L, the carared was for color. I prefer not to use sugar in my brews, but I can certainly do that.

Proposed new grain and hop

Mash 149*F
13# 2-Row
1# Sugar (OK OK I'll add it!)
.5# Carafoam
.5# C-60

Hops:
60 mins 1 Oz Columbus
10 mins .5oz Falconers Flight; .5oz Pallisade; .5oz Citra
Whirlpool/Flameout .5oz Falconers Flight; .5oz Pallisade; .5oz Citra
Dry Hop: 1 oz Citra; 1oz Falconders Flight

2 Packs us-05 @65*F

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

this new adjustment looks better on the grain bill.
i usually keep the cara/crystal even lower or completely out, 1/2lb total. caraRed is C40-60 as well. so you have a 1lb.
hops give plenty of head retention so you could cut down or out the carafoam. maybe go 1/2 lb if its body your going for. but i percieve that mouth coating hoppiness as body so i usually keep my IPAs and IIPAs 95% base malt or if all base malt 50% MO and 50% 2-row. and sometimes a lb of table sugar
fine with the munich. will help with some color and character.

hops id maybe put some of the columbus in the 10 min mark. i like my ipas tropical with some of that mouth coating dank and a tiny bit of pine.
summit is fine to bitter, i usually use Warrior, Magnum or summit. sometimes columbus.

Good Suggestion on the 50.50 split between MO and 2-Row... I hadnt considered that. Also same with the Columbus in the 10min mark I would probably sub out the Falconers Flight with the Columbus and bump it to 1oz of Columbus at that point

 

[bobbrews]

Original Gravity: 1.077-1.080
Final Gravity: 1.010-1.013

Mash at 149 F, Time: 90 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.50 qt/lb

Pale 2-Row (80.0%)
Maris Otter (10.0%)
CaraRed (5.0%)
Corn Sugar (5.0%)

12 oz. total hops

1.50 oz - Columbus @ 60 min
1.50 oz - Columbus & Summit Blend @ 10 min
4.00 oz - Citra, Falconers, Cascade blend @ 180F Hopstand
5.00 oz - Citra, Falconers, Cascade blend @ 5 day Dryhop


^This will give you a fruit bomb without being sticky sweet/cloying.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Another Revision based on comments:

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 75 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.068
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.086
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 9.3%
IBU (tinseth): 70.11
SRM (morey): 7.3

FERMENTABLES:
13 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (83.9%)
1 lb - Corn Sugar - Dextrose (6.5%)
1 lb - German - CaraFoam (6.5%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (3.2%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 44.2
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 5.88
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 16.03
0.5 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 4.01
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Palisade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 200 °F
1 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days
1 oz - Falconer's Flight, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 20 qt, Mash In
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 45 min, Amount: 16 qt, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

 

[kombat]

Now we're getting somewhere! OP, you're making me thirsty!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Things are getting much better!!! What an improvement from v1!

Looking at your last revision the only thing I see that is lacking is the hops. I would literally double all of your additions. Don't worry about how the the IBU calculation looks because it will be wrong. For a bigger IPA I would shoot for a calculated 150-200 IBU with most of those coming from the late kettle additions.

Also, I may have missed it somewhere, but what are you doing for water? I really like high-sulfate IPAs. So I would kick up the so4 to ~250ppm and cl to ~100ppm. It will help the hops pop.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Yes with all your help I feel like we are getting somewhere.

Water in my area is fairly balanced and all my IPA's come out damn near perfect, so I won't screw with it too much beyond doing pH adjustments for the
mash.
So for the 10 Minute additions Increase all of them to 2oz? I get around 115IBU's for that

 

[AK7007]

Consideration for others who might want to make a DIPA with this much crystal: don't use S-05. Try WLP644, which will attenuate simple dextrins and throw out fruit flavors that compliment this type of hop schedule. Mash low to get what fermentables you can. Sub some base malt with sugars added after initial fermentation.

This is what I have arrived at after trial and error, but YMMV

 

[judsonp]

So for the 10 Minute additions Increase all of them to 2oz? I get around 115IBU's for that

Looks to me like right now you're at 8 oz total hops. That'll probably make a fine beer, but it might be low for a really hoppy IIPA.

Doubling would be a pound of hops total, which is quite a lot of hops. (But the calculated 115 IBUs is nothing to worry about.)

I'd increase by 50% or double.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Yes with all your help I feel like we are getting somewhere.

Water in my area is fairly balanced and all my IPA's come out damn near perfect, so I won't screw with it too much beyond doing pH adjustments for the
mash.
So for the 10 Minute additions Increase all of them to 2oz? I get around 115IBU's for that

Yep. 115IBU is just a number. In real life you are more like 75 IBU. Software will tell you a lot more IBU because of the late hopping. You get plenty of bitterness from late hopping but not that harsh bitterness that a lot of people associate with a hoppybeer.

Looks to me like right now you're at 8 oz total hops. That'll probably make a fine beer, but it might be low for a really hoppy IIPA.

Doubling would be a pound of hops total, which is quite a lot of hops. (But the calculated 115 IBUs is nothing to worry about.)

I'd increase by 50% or double.

I brew 10 gallon batches but I use 31oz of hops for my DIPA. I've brewed it twice this spring. So 4# of hops are gone. It is kinda sad to use them so quickly.

A pound of hops in a 5 gallon batch isn't bad at all. How you use them is key. Lots of late kettle hops will give a great hoppy flavor but not over-the-top bitterness. I have lots of people that aren't fans of super bitter but love me DIPA. It has a small 90-minute bittering charge and then 8oz at 15min and 9 oz at flameout with a long, hot, whirlpool. Pretty all the hops are "high alpha" type hops. Columbus, simcoe, northern brewer, etc. I bitter with Apollo. I use 4 oz at 90 minutes.

 

[NathPowe]

has a small 90-minute bittering charge and then 8oz at 15min and 9 oz at flameout with a long, hot, whirlpool. Pretty all the hops are "high alpha" type hops. Columbus, simcoe, northern brewer, etc. I bitter with Apollo. I use 4 oz at 90 minutes.

Damn dude. Get into it.

Sounds friggin awesome. Cheers.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Damn dude. Get into it.

Sounds friggin awesome. Cheers.

It's kinda fun dumping in full red solo cups of hops multiple times.

 

[judsonp]

I brew 10 gallon batches but I use 31oz of hops for my DIPA. I've brewed it twice this spring. So 4# of hops are gone. It is kinda sad to use them so quickly.

A pound of hops in a 5 gallon batch isn't bad at all.

Oh no. There's nothing wrong with a pound of hops in a 5-gallon batch. I've done that myself quite a few times. It's just good to keep in mind that it's not necessary and it's really hoppy!

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Thanks for all the help guys... Im hoping to brew this one next week if possible. This weekend is completely shot as I'll be shooting saturday and Sunday is mother's day, so you know that brewing definitely won't be a part of that haha.