Couple of Quick Joam Questions

[roweman07]

I just have a couple of questions before I start my first JOAM next week. First, what kind of water should I use? My local tap water is extremely hard. Our Wal-Mart has a few different Kinds of water in sealed gallons.

Secondly, will this recipe even work with temps steady in the 60's? Like, right at 66°F. There is no way to keep my house between 70-80°, due to my sons health condition. I'd rather not waste this much honey. Thanks in advance for the help folks.

 

[Lefou]

Did this mead style a couple years ago.
It's best if you use low carbonate filtered water that has no chlorine compounds in it - so yes, if you don't trust your water, purchase the water from the store. My mead was a variation of JOAM. Instead of the bread yeast, I used S05 ale yeast and fermented between 60-65F.

One hint ... Don't be surprised if your yeast goes beyond the stated alcohol tolerance level. I got ahead of myself by not paying attention to this detail, ignoring the fact honey is 95% fermentable. My starting sugar levels were a bit higher than realized due to being a noob and the yeast survived longer in solution than I thought. Instead of a drinkable 9.5% mead, I got a 14%ABV.
When you plan your recipe, don't do what I did. Try to keep your must starting gravity between 1.080-1.100. The yeast will finish a bit sooner and your ABV won't go way beyond a drinkable table wine as mine did.

 

[bernardsmith]

Lefou, the recipe for JAOM is very specific. You really cannot change a single element and have it work as it is designed to. The idea of using bread yeast is because that yeast in this protocol WILL leave the mead with unfermented sugars. You chose to use an ale yeast - so the mead fermented as it should... You don't measure the starting gravity - you follow the directions. Everything - everything - in the recipe has been thought out - from not moving the fermenter (bread yeast does not floculate well and does not pack like wine or ale yeasts) to the use of orange pieces - (the CO2 keeps the large pieces of fruit in suspension. When the fruit drops to the bottom that means enough of the CO2 has dissipated and you can bottle without any concern over popped corks or the like...)... JAOM is a novelty mead. It was created by a master mead maker who understood exactly what he was doing but you need to unlearn everything you do to make it well if you want to make a traditional mead.

 

[Ryue]

Not really on subject, but a high ABV has nothing to do with drinkability. I have made two different recipies of my own design.
One, a elderberry mead with local redclover honey, cinnamon sticks and various spices had a ABV of 19.5% and was almost as smooth as water and delicious.
The other was a peach black tea mead with wildflower honey, had a abv of only 15% but is much harsher.
Now, I know both of those gave a high abv, but a high abv doesnt mean it can't be smooth.

 

[Lefou]

I'm fully aware -now- of how and why the JOAM recipe was conceived, but when you're brand new at mazing, the finer points can get away from you. I didn't want a syrupy-sweet sack mead and that's just what I got - plus some.
Throwing some light on personal mistakes is a great way to help others avoid them, so being a bit honest isn't a problem for me.

 

[bernardsmith]

But because JAOM is a novelty mead - none of the components make any sense when used out of context of the whole recipe and while JAOM seems to be the recipe of choice of so many novice mead makers - their first attempt at mead -it's a lot like Mozarella cheese: it's not a cheese that seasoned cheese makers invoke as an easy or first cheese to make - In the case of JAOM there is not a thing you can learn from making JAOM that you can use in any other mead. It's a one pony trick.

 

[roweman07]

I love where this conversation is going, but does anybody have any ideas about fermenting it in lower temperatures? In the 60's. By all means, please keep the conversation going as well fellas. Thumbs up!

 

[Ryue]

Sorry, on the topic of temperatures, I had my mead in the garage and didnt have any problem until it got below 40 degrees and I had to move it inside. But I wasnt using a bread yeast as in JAOM, so idk how that would act...

 

[Lefou]

You shouldn't have a problem with fermenting your mead in temperatures between 60-65F. Try to stay near the cooler end of the range because a quick, warm fermentation can give you "hot" fusel alcohols you'd rather not have.
One simple trick to help keep your fermentor cool would be to cover it with a wet towel to provide wicking evaporation, if needed. My ales in glass carboys get this treatment. I will put the carboy in a plastic milk crate out of the way and drape the shoulders of the carboy with a light, wet towel leaving the airlock uncovered.

 

[Maylar]

The JAOM should be OK at 65°F - it'll just take longer to finish. And yes, use bottled spring water.

 

[bernardsmith]

You shouldn't have a problem with fermenting your mead in temperatures between 60-65F. Try to stay near the cooler end of the range because a quick, warm fermentation can give you "hot" fusel alcohols you'd rather not have.
One simple trick to help keep your fermentor cool would be to cover it with a wet towel to provide wicking evaporation, if needed.

Off topic, I know, but Groennfell Meadery advocates fermentations in the 80's F when using D47 yeast AND low ABV meads precisely because of the added complexities to the flavors that these temperatures produce. Not fusels but they say esters (they work hard not to stress the yeast)... so fusels are not always the outcome of higher temperatures. They are the outcome if you ferment at high temps WITH ignorance...

 

[Lefou]

Groenfell meadery ... I like his odd style.
His specialty is carbonated session mead. Quite the novelty.

 

[bernardsmith]

It is, and their business model depends on 5 weeks from honey to can... When I first came across their recipes (and it is all "open source") I thought they were joking... but their knowledge of mead making is absolutely solid.

 

[Lefou]

One of Groenfell's session meads is the Nordic Farmhouse Cranberry drink that weighs in around 5.7%. From his description, I'm tempted to state he may be using a Nordic ale yeast (kveik) that's either a Voss or Hothead strain. These Nordic ale yeasts tolerate high temperatures and produce flavors without fusels. These types of yeasts (like the strains in Belgian-French saison beers) can tolerate fermentation temps much higher than you'd expect under the proper treatment.
Many people are very interested in Nordic-style methods and those native strains are finally becoming more available. I'd love to try the Voss strain myself.

 

[roweman07]

Thanks for the help fellas! I certainly appreciate it. I was worried if I'm patient enough for mead(used to do ciders) then I remembered that I once tried a mosquito repellent that has to age for four years just to see if it worked....... It didn't lol Have a great new years!

 

[CGVT]

FWIW, I made this in February of 2012. I scaled up the recipe to about 4 gallons. It tasted like rocket fuel every time I tried it so I quit trying it a couple of years ago, maybe three. I had pretty much written it off.

I opened a bottle today. Holy s.hit. What a change. The spices have mellowed and there is no burn what-so-ever. It is sweet, but not cloying with a hint of orange and spice.

It is now a wonderful drink and the best part is I have a lot of it left to enjoy.

 

[roweman07]

I am definitely looking forward to it. I want to use it for Christmas presents next year. It may be wise to start a second gallon for myself, in a couple weeks. I'm patient but I don't know if I'm "let it age 4 years" patient lol.

 

[bernardsmith]

The idea that mead needs to age for years may have been true when no one used nutrient, when people made mead with enough alcohol to power a rocket to mars and when they basically had no idea what they were doing. Certainly, age can take a good mead to greatness and can sometimes take a piece of crap and make it delicious but today you can make a mead that you can drink from yeast to bottle in a few months if not sooner. Any mead that NEEDS a year (never mind 4 years) to be drinkable is a mead that has been made with very poor protocol and technique...

 

[Maylar]

The classic JAOM right from the fermentor is all orange, clove and alcohol. At 2 months it's drinkable, and at 8 months it's wonderful.

 

[CGVT]

The idea that mead needs to age for years may have been true when no one used nutrient, when people made mead with enough alcohol to power a rocket to mars and when they basically had no idea what they were doing. Certainly, age can take a good mead to greatness and can sometimes take a piece of crap and make it delicious but today you can make a mead that you can drink from yeast to bottle in a few months if not sooner. Any mead that NEEDS a year (never mind 4 years) to be drinkable is a mead that has been made with very poor protocol and technique...

That may be true of most meads, but we are talking about JAOM here. By definition it is made with very poor protocol and technique.

The classic JAOM right from the fermentor is all orange, clove and alcohol. At 2 months it's drinkable, and at 8 months it's wonderful.

Mine took a lot longer than that.

 

[bernardsmith]

That may be true of most meads, but we are talking about JAOM here. By definition it is made with very poor protocol and technique.



Mine took a lot longer than that.

I disagree. The protocol for JAOM is not "poor" . It is very specific to this mead. Joe Mattioli, the fellow who concocted JAOM, is a craftsman. He knew precisely what his recipe was asking you to do and precisely what the outcome would be. It's like following a recipe to bake a loaf of bread. There are no measurements taken because the recipe itself embraces well understood principles that are normally avoided or ignored and there is no need to second guess when the mead is ready to bottle. Like bread - if you follow the specific recipe and you bake the loaf at 400 F it will be ready to come out the oven in 40 minutes. No need to have measured the temperature of the water or weighed the flour in relation to the volume of water. Mattioli's measurements and observations are all buried in his recipe.

 

[Lefou]

The one directive I personally violated on JOAM was substituting the bread yeast with US05.
I also did stepped nutrient additions and "disturbed" (roused) the yeast by swirling the must to release CO2 from the mixture - something that extended the fermentation and bumped up the resultant alcohol level.
I typically won't drink >10% alcohol wines or beers, but the "hotness" of this mead dropped significantly after one year. I still have one liter bottle left and it tastes much better after two years than the original. Time and aging is something to consider when doing wines or meads because session ales and lagers will be far more ready to consume before a good wine or mead is truly ready.

 

[Lefou]

I am definitely looking forward to it. I want to use it for Christmas presents next year. It may be wise to start a second gallon for myself, in a couple weeks. I'm patient but I don't know if I'm "let it age 4 years" patient lol.

...then you're the perfect person to recommend "Bray's One Month Mead" thread for. It's a great read, suggest you look for it here. Unfortunately, I'm posting from an iPad and can't link to that gem.

 

[roweman07]

...then you're the perfect person to recommend "Bray's One Month Mead" thread for. It's a great read, suggest you look for it here. Unfortunately, I'm posting from an iPad and can't link to that gem.

I have come across that a couple of times but I found the recipe to be confusing. I am well-versed in the kitchen. I have been cooking my entire life, professionally a great deal of it. Maybe it is because I am so focused on this one and didn't take the time to read it well but I found the recipe for "Bray's one month mead" to be very confusing.

On a side note the best Mead that I have ever tasted, in my opinion, is Chaucer's. I have only ever found one bottle of available in store. Apparently, they prefer to sell to ren fairs.

Ciders are what I have always really been in to. I just like doing things, sort of, "the old way". Doing other research is how I came across this mead by accident. I find it to be very intriguing.

Any hints tips or tricks that you can recommend for Bray's mead?

 

[bernardsmith]

What is it about the recipe you find confusing? Bray Denard's approach to mead making is usually very clear and straightforward. It may be that he is using a term that is clear to more seasoned mead makers but is not so clear to someone coming in to this activity without enough knowledge of the culture..

 

[roweman07]

What is it about the recipe you find confusing? Bray Denard's approach to mead making is usually very clear and straightforward. It may be that he is using a term that is clear to more seasoned mead makers but is not so clear to someone coming in to this activity without enough knowledge of the culture..

It is called "Bray's One Month mead". But I think you probably correct. I'm sure anybody who has been around a couple months has no trouble with it. I don't do beer whatsoever, haven't tackled wine yet, and JAOM will be my first mead. I have only made ciders before.

 

[bernardsmith]

If you treat JAOM as something sui generis ( something that stands totally alone and has no relationship to any other mead) then Bray's "BOMM" is more or less how any mead is made. The key difference between BOMM and any other mead is that Bray tested many yeasts ( I think Bray is a biochemist by profession and works in the medical field and so is very familiar with the "scientific method" (controlling variables, making observations, creating and testing hypotheses etc) used in high quality experimentation and testing) and argues that his choice of yeast (a very specific strain of Belgium ale yeast) provides for a very clean (no off flavors) and quick finishing mead that can be bottled - start to finish in about 4 weeks or so. That said, Bray is a member of this forum and I am confident (he said...) that he will respond to any questions you may have about his protocol if you send him a private message through this forum...

 

[roweman07]

Crap... I am going to have so many stinking carboys going. My wife is going to hate me. I get that JAOM a very unique mead I just find it to be very intriguing and want to try it. Would you suggest Bray's to be a good starting point?

 

[bernardsmith]

In my opinion there is one really good starting point - and with apologies for the length of this post. Sorry - I am garrulous.
Others may disagree and that's OK but the really good starting point is a traditional mead. That is the term used for a mead made from honey, water, yeast and nutrients. There is no recipe involved (more about that in a moment) and when you have mastered a trad mead you can make any mead. The secret is that there is nothing to hide behind. No fruit, no spices, no tannins, no acids..nothing just the honey. It's the late Spaulding Grey alone , on stage , no set, no make-up - talking just to you, in the audience.
1. How much honey to use? How long is a piece of string? Let's use 1 gallon as the base unit: 1 lb of honey to make 1 gallon will have a starting gravity of 1.035 and so a potential ABV of about 4.5% - not much alcohol and not much flavor (all the flavor and all the alcohol coming from the honey). Double the volume of honey (2 lbs ) and you double the ABV (9%) - All other things being equal, there should be more flavor too. Add another lb of honey - and the SG goes to 1.105 and the ABV now should hit more than 13.5% and a lot more flavor. If you add another pound of honey (4 lbs in this gallon container) the SG is 1.140 and the potential ABV is more than 18%. No yeast can deal with so much alcohol so this mead will finish sweet but will very alcoholic. So, how much honey? You decide.
2. What kind of honey might you use? Well, clover or wildflower (IMO) are best used as vehicles for fruits and spices and herbs but varietals like orange blossom or raspberry, honeysuckle or Tupelo or meadowfoam can hold center stage without any problem.
3. Yeast - what kind of yeast should you use? Any wine yeast will work, but some yeasts produce lots of glycols and those add more mouthfeel (make the mead more viscous) so the lower the starting gravity the more glycol you might want; Other yeasts may be more aggressive and so blow off flavors and aromas - and the less honey you use the more precious each flavor and aroma molecule might be. Some yeasts ferment very cleanly at lower temperatures and others produce esters at higher temperatures... If the amount of honey is unlikely to produce a flavor rich mead might fermenting at higher temperatures add to the flavor profile of this mead? How much yeast to use? Packs generally say that they are good for 1-6 gallons .. but that may be because the lab is basing their findings on wine - you might nevertheless go with what they suggest - or you may assume that you need to use their claims as minima and not as typical - You cannot over-pitch. But you can under-pitch and under-pitching often results in real stress for the yeast. If you smell an odor of yeast you have under-pitched!
4. Nutrient - honey has none. There are organic compounds that the yeast needs to repair cells and create the machinery it needs to transport sugars through cell walls and there are inorganic chemicals the yeast needs - such as nitrogen and zinc and magnesium, I think. Lab processed nutrients will have instructions about how much to feed the yeast but how much yeast need depends as much on the size of the viable yeast colony and the strain of yeast as it does on the amount of sugar in the must. Developing a feel for what your preferred yeast need is part of the skill of developing mastery.
So... Bottom line - if you can make a really good traditional mead, the world is your oyster because you can make a great mead. Me? I am still learning but that is why my basement "make room" is filled with quart (1 lb in a quart is the same as 4 lbs in a gallon) and gallon carboys all bubbling away with traditionals and with metheglins (spices, herbs, and flowers) and melomels (fruits) and bochets (caramelized) and braggots (with grains).

 

[roweman07]

There's no problem with being wordy, I assure you. I can very much appreciate what you are telling me. You've given me a lot to chew on. There's nothing like starting over!
Now I just need to decide if I'm gonna go after the BMB style carboy or not. The spigot is incredibly intriguing to me.