Sadly I have found myself with a desire to upgrade my chiller from a standard immersion. I am looking at either a counterflow or plate type. My residence is in the Southeast so water temperature is generally high. What are the pros and cons of each? I will add that I am nearing the end of extract brewing and moving into all-grain. Thanks!
Counterflow vs Plate Chiller
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Plate chillers are counterflow chillers.
There are the coaxial type, i.e., Chillzilla, where one tube is inside another. Then the plate type. I think these two function with similar performance, and have the same disadvantages. The biggest problem with all hobbyist counterflows is that they cannot be disassembled.
I have a plate chiller and it's very compact and works very, very well. But it needs an occasional PBW soak or it will get packed with hop debris and flow is reduced. I have never had the coaxial type of counterflow chiller.
There are the coaxial type, i.e., Chillzilla, where one tube is inside another. Then the plate type. I think these two function with similar performance, and have the same disadvantages. The biggest problem with all hobbyist counterflows is that they cannot be disassembled.
I have a plate chiller and it's very compact and works very, very well. But it needs an occasional PBW soak or it will get packed with hop debris and flow is reduced. I have never had the coaxial type of counterflow chiller.
Plate chillers need a PBW clean EVERY time. Anything less than that and as your friend, I'd want to know that so I don't drink it.
I have a plate chiller and I see the gunk that comes out every time I use it. Unless you're doing large volumes, go counterflow.
I have a plate chiller and I see the gunk that comes out every time I use it. Unless you're doing large volumes, go counterflow.
I use a CFC and all I have to do for cleaning after use is to rinse w/ water, StarSan, them water again.
My brew club has a large plate chiller that effective but is a PITA because cleaning properly and residue seem to be constant issues.
Since you live in the Southeast, as I do , you'll want to set up a means to recirculate ice water to make either truly effective.
My brew club has a large plate chiller that effective but is a PITA because cleaning properly and residue seem to be constant issues.
Since you live in the Southeast, as I do , you'll want to set up a means to recirculate ice water to make either truly effective.
I'm sticking with my Chillzilla! I've never been tempted by plate chillers - too much maintenance and risk of contamination.
I've also seen what happens when you flush a counterflow with water and Star San. GROSS. Star San is a sanitizer. It does not remove all the cold break that builds up in your counterflow. My roommates used to clean their counterflow that way. Every batch started going sour. They started tearing equipment apart cleaning everything and finally ran PBW through the counterflow and were horrified by what came out.
Indian_villager
Well-Known Member
I use a counterflow chiller. My ground water varies but I have access to an ice machine at work. I load a cooler with Ice and water and recirculate that through the cold side with a pump. Gets my wort around 70.
You're not horrified until you see piles of maggots pouring out... into your 15-gallons-full boil kettle. Yes, that happened. Looked like a bunch of white rice on top of the wort.
Sorry to highjack the thread, but it does apply in that a solid cleaning regimine is part of any counterflow chiller setup.
I'm just always amazed at how lax people get about cleaning counterflow type chiller just because they can't see it.
Any flow inside a counterflow/plate chiller is a steady even flow. For comparison, try cleaning your boil kettle by dribbling water out of a pitcher. If you can't touch it, you have to use a chemical cleaner. Simply rinsing it ESPECIALLY on the cold side will ONLY lead to problems. I assure you, you wouldn't want to drink a commercial brewery that treats their equipemnt like that and I sure wouldn't want to drink homebrew like that either.
I'm just always amazed at how lax people get about cleaning counterflow type chiller just because they can't see it.
Any flow inside a counterflow/plate chiller is a steady even flow. For comparison, try cleaning your boil kettle by dribbling water out of a pitcher. If you can't touch it, you have to use a chemical cleaner. Simply rinsing it ESPECIALLY on the cold side will ONLY lead to problems. I assure you, you wouldn't want to drink a commercial brewery that treats their equipemnt like that and I sure wouldn't want to drink homebrew like that either.
Monster Mash
Well-Known Member
I have a convoluted chiller and it works great. The only difference between that and a plate chiller is the size and the cost.
To be fair you could mechanically clean a CFC (by the way I use a Plate so this is no way bias
) by pigging it with paper towel wads. I have done this to keg beer lines in the past and have been disguised with the difference after and that was with only "clean" beer going through them.My plate cleaning ragime is now to flush/back-flush the plate HEx multiple times, then hook it up as part of a oxyclean system soak (1 cap in ~40 litres cirulated for 1 hours @ 50°C) then a couple of rinses.
then a flush/back-flush prior to hooking up on brewday.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
So what's the accepted protocol for cleaning a CFC or plate chiller? I just built one for myself and it has cam locks on either end. I've also rigged up a garden hose to camlock fitting so that I can run high pressure water from the hose through the wort side of the CFC in both directions. We have pretty high water pressure (about 90 PSI), and I would think this would help to get rid of most gunk. But, my plan is to first clean out the boil kettle, then fill it with a few gallons of hot water with PBW, and then run this through the CFC. After doing this, I plan to connect the garden hose for a short blast from either end.
What do you folks do to keep clean CFCs? As it is made with a garden hose plus copper coil, baking it in the oven (as is done with a plate chiller) is obviously not a viable option.
What do you folks do to keep clean CFCs? As it is made with a garden hose plus copper coil, baking it in the oven (as is done with a plate chiller) is obviously not a viable option.
Hey guys,
Great post and lots of great info. I'm having the same debate as i want to upgrade from my 3/8" - 25' immersion chiller to a CFC or plate chiller (or maybe just a bigger immersion chiller). But i'm more interested in how people handle the wort after it leaves the chiller, to remove the cold break material. Also, is there any concern with the boil pot full of near boiling wort that is just sitting there while its waiting to go through the chiller? This is not an issue with an immersion chiller as it cools the entire boil volume at once and the cold break settles to the bottom. Thanks guys.
Dion
Great post and lots of great info. I'm having the same debate as i want to upgrade from my 3/8" - 25' immersion chiller to a CFC or plate chiller (or maybe just a bigger immersion chiller). But i'm more interested in how people handle the wort after it leaves the chiller, to remove the cold break material. Also, is there any concern with the boil pot full of near boiling wort that is just sitting there while its waiting to go through the chiller? This is not an issue with an immersion chiller as it cools the entire boil volume at once and the cold break settles to the bottom. Thanks guys.
Dion
BadWolfBrewing
Well-Known Member
Recirculate through the cfc with a pump back to the brew pot. You chill the whole batch evenly, trap the cold break in the kettle, and if you pump fast enough you get a nice whirl pool going. Jaded vendor sells a straight line cfc designed to whirlpool and be ready to clean.
I'm in the process of building my own with bigger and longer pipe diameters to get more flow rate. That way I can use it for herms too.
I'm in the process of building my own with bigger and longer pipe diameters to get more flow rate. That way I can use it for herms too.
Bigscience
Well-Known Member
A few thoughts. If your ground water is warm, chill down in the kettle (whirlpool or immersion) until about 110F. Then use the sump pump to recirculate ice water. Otherwise you'll waste a bunch of ice.
As for cleaning out plate chillers, a back flush, even with PBW, will leave some gunk behind. If you think your chiller is clean, try this. Hook up your hose for a back flush and get your water up to pressure with your valve at the chiller off. Now open the valve quickly. This water hammer type effect seems to kick out junk right away that a long flow doesn't. Keep doing a few cycles of quick on's for both forward and back flush.
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As for cleaning out plate chillers, a back flush, even with PBW, will leave some gunk behind. If you think your chiller is clean, try this. Hook up your hose for a back flush and get your water up to pressure with your valve at the chiller off. Now open the valve quickly. This water hammer type effect seems to kick out junk right away that a long flow doesn't. Keep doing a few cycles of quick on's for both forward and back flush.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
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