Cost of homebrewing vs...other

[hilljack13]

So today I went out to eat and ordered a pitcher of beer. 60oz so just under half a gallon. This cost me $27. I could have opted for a cheaper IPA at $18, but it was something I already had and could brew so I paid a premium. I ordered Rouge Dead Guy Ale @6.8ABV. Not bad.

What I want to point out is the cost of this 60oz pitcher vs ordering a kit (or if you have your own grains) for around the same price that gives 5 gallons. Even if you opt for the Pliny clone, ~$90+ from NB, you still get 5 gallons. The same 60oz pitcher in 5 gallons would cost ~(5gal = 640oz) so 10.66 pitchers x $27 = $288!!! Someone please check the math, I'm still fresh from the restaurant and buzzzzzzed.

So, for any new homebrewer wondering how much to put into making beer at home, consider the cost you spend when dining out, grabbing a 6 pack or case at the local market. The cost of homebrewing will far outweigh the cost of buying commercial. The difference is whether you spend money on a Grainfather G40 (as I did) or go with and Anvil for about 1/3 the cost that does the same. I usually don't do these types of post but after paying $27 for 60oz I really got rather annoyed at the profit some of these joints are making when things are hard enough for some.

Plus the more you brew the better your cost becomes over the long haul.

Just my .02...cause I can't afford anymore!

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Well, you could buy a six pack of Dead Guy Ale to drink at home for half that. And it wouldn't cost $17 to make yourself a bacon cheeseburger at home either. Ingredient cost is very far down on the list of expenses for eating and drinking establishments, and the profit those joints are making is a lot less than you think. I mean, why do you suppose it is that so many of them can't stay in business?

 

[shoengine]

I long ago stopped caring about "saving" money by home brewing. I currently do it because I want to. And I still go out quite a bit to breweries to drink their beer.

Plenty of folks use a bucket and a stove top, make good beer and probably save a ton of money.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Be your own plumber and mechanic. Weave your own cloth, do the tailoring too. It's amazing how cheap quality grass-fed steak can be when you raise the cow and do your own butchering.

 

[hilljack13]

I mean, why do you suppose it is that so many of them can't stay in business?

This happens to be a chain restaurant, Pies and Pints. I don't see them going anywhere. But I believe places go out of business for the outrageous prices they are charging and folks just aren't as willing to pay. I get inflation, but hell, a few years ago I could have gone there for HALF the price. This whole covid thing got the businesses that made it a thought process of overcharging and blaming it on inflation, etc. I don't plan on opening up a business, but when I can brew at home for 1/5 the cost, it is obvious that these places are making money. And yes, things are cheaper in the south so margins here may be even higher. Not to mention charging 15-18 for a single pizza...Flour is CHEAP. So are toppings. They make way over 100% per pizza. No excuse for the hyped up prices. There is a reason this is the first time I have been back since 2022.

Today's bill. 2 pizzas, one salad, one pitcher of beer and one coke. $73.73 before tip....Make it make sense???

 

[hilljack13]

Be your own plumber and mechanic. Weave your own cloth, do the tailoring too. It's amazing how cheap quality grass-fed steak can be when you raise the cow and do your own butchering.

Not when you pay thousands for the land to raise the cattle. Unless you happen to be the heir of said land. I get what you are saying, as a hunter it is more expensive to pay for the license, gas, gear, and processing of meat than to just buy at the store. Everything is different.

 

[DBhomebrew]

You're right. The brewery, the brewers, the brew equipment, the packaging line, the marketing, the trucking, the distribution, the draft equipment, the restaurant, the wait staff, etc, etc. That's all free.

Ain't the free market grand?

 

[Pennine]

It all depends on how much you value your time. I don't save anything by homebrewing, but that's ok.

I agree though it is expensive to eat and drink out. It's expensive to grocery shop too.

 

[hilljack13]

The brewery, the brewers, the brew equipment, the packaging line, the marketing, the trucking, the distribution, the draft equipment, the restaurant, the wait staff, etc, etc. That's all free.

Considering the location I mentioned, yeah. The only thing I know of is the massive cost of liquor licensing. I have seen places go out of business just because of this.

 

[Pennine]

I also was at the LHBS and it was $3.55/lb of maris otter. I don't think they are gouging, it's the cost of a having a local so I am happy to support them.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Considering the location I mentioned, yeah. The only thing I know of is the massive cost of liquor licensing. I have seen places go out of business just because of this.

Last I checked, Rogue was not ignoring their marketing department.

 

[hilljack13]

I also was at the LHBS and it was $3.55/lb of maris otter. I don't think they are gouging, it's the cost of a having a local so I am happy to support them.

That is still good, considering an average of 10lbs for a 5gal batch, plus hops & yeast. Still much better than $27/60oz or 0.45c per oz.

 

[hilljack13]

Last I checked, Rogue was not ignoring their marketing department.

I was referring to the restaurant. If it makes any difference, the $18 pitcher was a Sierra Nevada. I can't say that I have seen jack from either companies marketing so I doubt the $10 difference is there. At least in my area. Might be different in other locations.

 

[DBhomebrew]

To be clear, I'm not saying your bar/food tab was cheap. I'm saying it's unexpected.

I just paid the shop to replace a $17 coolant temp sensor. Almost $430. Now if only I had my own lift and the time...

 

[Broken Crow]

 

[mac_1103]

If it makes any difference, the $18 pitcher was a Sierra Nevada.

So Dead Guy cost you 50% more than Sierra Nevada, which is approximately the same delta as you'd find at a grocery store.

 

[MaxStout]

My neighbors are avid fishers. Boat, trailer, rods & reels, tackle, the expense of hauling the boat to the lake, etc. I suppose they could just go to the store and buy seafood.

I don't brew to save money. I enjoy it.

 

[Dland]

Maybe I'm an exception here, but I do save money brewing my own beer. If I count my time, billed at what I bill my customers, for everything involved with brewing, I'm not saving that much, but still saving. Admittedly I do like higher end beers, and drink quite a few of them.

However, that is not the main point of my brewing. I can not get fresh, non transported, non oxidized beer of the types I enjoy most where I live at any cost. But if I could, I'd still be saving money.

Even if my brew rig and chiller and kegs were not DYI and old salvage gear, I'd be saving money at this point, but since it is, there is no comparison.

I'll even go out on a limb here and say that the statement that home brewing can't save funds while making good beer does may not apply to a lot of serious homebrewers who mainly only drink what they brew.

Perhaps it is like a more applicable for guys that spend a lot on fancy brew rigs, then still go out and buy $20 4 packs and drop a couple hundred bucks for dinner an beer at some fancy brew pup. Not that there is anything wrong with that, [;

And yeah, if you are happy with 30 packs of BMC, or beers like"golden anniversary"(remember that isht!?), you probably won't save any money either, unless your time is of very little value. That is not a meant as a slight in any way, by the way.

 

[worlddivides]

The idea of saving money by making beer has never even occurred to me. At the very least, the time I lose brewing instead of working can make homebrew cost several times what it would cost to buy the beers commercially. And yes, everything remotely related to homebrew in Japan is way more expensive than in the US, but also craft beers in general cost way more in Japan than in the US. If I just wanted to make the cheapest beer I could (not factoring in the cost of lost work), I'd just brew a 2.5% to 3.0% ABV ale with just a bittering hop addition and nothing else.

Even back in 2014 when I started brewing, sure, a kit based around some trendy craft beer might cost less than buying 4-5 gallons of that beer itself, but even back then, the time I'd lose brewing would far outweigh any small savings for homebrewing.

Though... I'll say it's usually better than how much more I spend cooking something elaborate at home than it would cost to buy that same thing at a store.

 

[Pennine]

I do have to say $27 for 5 beers isn't a bad deal now days. I dropped $34 for two tallboys of Coors light at a Metallica concert last week. Hell $18 for 5 IPAs is a steal.

 

[jacoob]

I compare savings from brewing to buying beer from the store.

Roughly around when I "paid off" my initial brewing equipment with the savings from homebrewing, I went and built a keezer. Still "paying" that one off but honestly that was a want and not a need for brewing. So if one is selectful in what gear they acquire, yes it's possible to brew at a financial surplus.

Actually, when I brew low/no-alcohol stuff I save more, because the recipes are generally cheaper (less grains), and NA beer is generally more expensive than real beer. And I of course get a much better product.

 

[mashdar]

Googling around, a typical restaurant cashflow breakdown might be
+100% revenue
-30% labor
-30% food
-30% misc costs (rent, taxes, licenses, utilities, etc)
-10% net

So if you figure pizza ingredients cost $8, you'd better expect to pay ~$27 for the restaurant to be making $2.70 (10%). Which is pretty terrible net margins compared to most businesses*, especially considering the capital investment in a commercial kitchen, decor, etc.

Obviously every business plan is different, but IMO restaurants are generally terrible at making money.

*Grocery stores win worst margins award. 1-3%.

 

[hilljack13]

Googling around, a typical restaurant cashflow breakdown might be
+100% revenue
-30% labor
-30% food
-30% misc costs (rent, taxes, licenses, utilities, etc)
-10% net

So if you figure pizza ingredients cost $8, you'd better expect to pay ~$27 for the restaurant to be making $2.70 (10%). Which is pretty terrible net margins compared to most businesses*, especially considering the capital investment in a commercial kitchen, decor, etc.

Obviously every business plan is different, but IMO restaurants are generally terrible at making money.

*Grocery stores win worst margins award. 1-3%.

Terrible. If I can make a pizza at home for about $5 per, the restaurant sure as hell can too. That leaves $15-$5 = $10 profit to spread around. Or about 200% profit.

 

[hilljack13]

Seems this post has gotten way off target. I was simply trying to show how brewing at home could save money vs. buy at restaurants or getting a 6 pax. Some here seem to have a trigger on supporting capitalize yet so many I have seen are so left leaning, I'll leave it at that. I like this forum, but for gods sake, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[shoengine]

Yes, eating out, drinking out is very expensive. I only get drinks out once a week unless I'm out for the weekend. I feel okay splurging when hanging out with friends.

Sometimes the wife and I determine the cost of our meal we made and compare to eating out and it is almost never over 50% of the cost of eating out.

 

[mashdar]

You asked a question. Several tried to answer. : )

Raw inputs are not usually the bulk of costs, you're not valuing your time etc. Beer and food are pretty competitive markets, so if everyone is charging a bunch and it seems strange, you probably don't understand where all the money is going.

Re saving money by brewing, it all comes down to how you value your time and amortize your equipment. If you say $10/hr and 3% equipment cost per batch, the math changes a lot.

To me, the value is in the craft and the creativity.

 

[hilljack13]

You asked a question

Not in my original post. so this is irrelevant.

saving money by brewing, it all comes down to how you value your time and amortize your equipment.

I tried to mention this with the cost of grains, etc to a brew day. but some didn't want to comprehend this.

 

[mac_1103]

If I can make a pizza at home for about $5 per, the restaurant sure as hell can too. That leaves $15-$5 = $10 profit to spread around. Or about 200% profit.

Sorry, but all this shows is that you don't understand what the word "profit" means. Kinda like how cheap it is to brew your own beer if you ignore equipment costs and your own labor.

I can get 12-packs of SNPA at my local Kroger today for 13 cents an ounce. Ingredient costs for my last batch of IPA came to a little over 5 cents an ounce. So yeah I guess I'm saving money if you look at it that way. But you sure as hell can't look at it that way if you're trying to make a living at it.

 

[shoengine]

Not in my original post. so this is irrelevant.

I tried to mention this with the cost of grains, etc to a brew day. but some didn't want to comprehend this.

Don't confuse miscomprehension with people just not agreeing with you!

 

[sibelman]

Saving money was part of my motivation to start brewing long ago. Today, I do it because I love to. I wince at high restaurant prices, but homebrewing doesn't fix that for me. Probably helps that I don't (can't!) drink a whole pitcher of beer.

Nothing left or right in this thread as far as I can see, btw. I think Karl Marx and Milton Friedman would agree that labor costs can't be ignored in making realistic cost comparisons. But if I only look at ingredient costs, you betcha I easily beat restaurant or grocery store beer prices. Less easily with the cost of all the fancy gear I've accumulated factors in. I'm retired, so labor cost...?

Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Not in my original post. so this is irrelevant.

Someone please check the math

We did.

Some here seem to have a trigger on supporting capitalize yet so many I have seen are so left leaning, I'll leave it at that.

Surprise, surprise, even us self-identified socialists are realists and even capitalist. I for one have no problem at all with Mom & Pop earning an honest profit after all the other stakeholders earn theirs. Ideally even a little extra to buy uniforms for the Little League team.

 

[hottpeper13]

I thought this was a hobby! Hobbies cost money! You can't take your time into consideration because ALL hobbies take time. Buying in bulk and repitching yeast lets me make most of my beer for ~ 20$ a 5 gal keg for ingredients. I also garden, but lets not go there.

 

[mac_1103]

I also garden, but lets not go there.

Yeah, I used to feed the deer that way but now I just give them my spent grain instead.

 

[worlddivides]

I thought this was a hobby! Hobbies cost money! You can't take your time into consideration because ALL hobbies take time. Buying in bulk and repitching yeast lets me make most of my beer for ~ 20$ a 5 gal keg for ingredients. I also garden, but lets not go there.

It only really comes up when you specifically try to compare the products of your hobby with a commercial version. You can't say "It's so much cheaper to play basketball myself than to buy tickets to the NBA!" or "It's so much cheaper to write and record your own music than to buy albums!" since it's not an even remotely similar comparison (both of them are not similar comparisons, and the music one is just flat-out wrong since writing and recording your own music will cost WAY more in the long run, even with zero time factored in), but you do see people saying "It's cheaper to bake this cake than it is to buy one at the store!" or "It's cheaper to knit this sweater than it is to buy one off Etsy!" Whether those are genuine comparisons or not really depends on the individual case. I also cook and bake, but I look at it just like brewing. I don't cook or bake to save money, though I can potentially save more money that way than I can with brewing (depending specifically on what I'm baking/cooking, though).

I think the beer where if I didn't factor time into that I would have saved the most money on was a Lambic-style sour I made where the ingredients altogether were something like $120, whereas it would have cost WAY more than that to buy the same kind of beer at that bulk from an American wild ale/sour ale brewery or a Belgian Lambic brewery. But there's also the fact that it took almost a year from brew day before I bottled it. And it's also debatable of whether it was of the same quality, better, or worse, depending on which brewery's beer you compared it to. And I could buy a lot of vastly different Lambics and Lambic-inspired sours and wild ales with the money I spent on the ingredients. I really liked it, though, but it was, as others have said, more about the creativity and the act of creating it than it was about saving money.

 

[IAmPistolPete]

Speaking from the restaurant side of things as a 20yr veteran of the industry, it is extremely difficult to make money in a restaurant. My last restaurant I was paying just my BOH staff[cooks, dish, maint, etc] almost $160/hr, whether the place was full or empty. That includes the 3 hours before we opened the doors. That includes the Monday lunch when there's 15 ppl in the entire building. Has your electricity or gas bills gone up or down every year? Your taxes? Rent? Your grocery spending? Do you voluntarily ask your boss for no raise so the company can lower it's prices to it's customers?
-
The 30/30/30/10 rule is a best case scenario, rarely achieved. Payroll was usually the biggest killer [which is why small shops the owner is there 80hrs/wk] but now the cost of everything goes up dramatically on a continual basis, especially since COVID. So yes, it's cheaper to make your own beer, your own pizza, your own burger. But guess what --- it's always been this way.

 

[sibelman]

"Beer is food, Lewis" -- Inspector Morse

 

[Agent]

I spend so much time brewing and enjoying my own beer, that I hardly have time to go out and spend extra on commercial beer.

And that's OK with me! The dollars saved are a sweet bonus.

 

[Broken Crow]

Co-pay on visit to physical therapist: $85
The same physical therapy at home brewing beer costs less than that and gets me 12 gallons in the fermenter. Cost of equipment is less than buying my own physical therapy gear, plus: I get neurological therapy in developing and recovering lost skills without having to go to a clinic that's geared for the lowest common denominator and gives me nothing but pain for the trip.....
We all have our own unique individual criteria and value we put on things we want and things we want to do and for that reason there'll never be a concensus on the "true cost of homebrewing"
I'll just add my +1 to @DBhomebrew ..Meat tastes much better when you were on a first-name basis and loved it or simply ate it for revenge for the bruises it gave you...A ram we called Ramstien bashed everyone he met and badly broke my dear friends arm, elbow and rib....he left a massive bruise on my GF's ass and another on my hip....he was delicious!....same goes for Malfoy the rooster who attacked everyone...yum!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I recently brewed a 25gallon batch of cream ale and felt the need to see what it cost per 12oz pour. I only calculated ingredient cost and it came out to 45 cents per 12oz glass. Obviously this is an extremely cheap beer to brew but still, I thought that was pretty good. Did I brew it to save money? Umm sure, have I brewed enough beer to save enough money to cover equipment costs?? Well that would take a lot more calculations but I bet I've hit my break even point. That said I still go out and support my local breweries, I love those guys. When I purchase beer I do tend to compare it with what I can brew it for vs what I'm paying at a brewery or wherever, kinda nuts, but they have a lot more overhead.

 

[madscientist451]

I can’t find ordinary bitter, dark mild, biere de garde or cider from local apples finished on bourbon barrel chips in any local stores, but I’ve got it on tap in the basement. Drinking what I want isn’t cheap but it is priceless.