Conical in Upright Freezer vs External Glycol Chiller pros/cons/cost

[eric19312]

I'm looking to move to fermenting in a conical and have pretty much settled on the Spike CF15.

I've been considering options for temperature control and for a while was thinking an aquarium chiller might be good strategy but got talked off that ledge and back safely into the glycol camp. Then yesterday @Blazinlow86 mentioned he was brewing with his conical in an upright freezer and posted a pic here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/spike-conical-observations-and-best-practices.645440/

Wow mind blown. Had forgotten that strategy all together which is dumb because I've been doing similar since I started, albeit using a crappy old fridge instead of a freezer. So today I've been thinking about pros and cons of "conical in freezer" vs "external glycol system" and want to see what others think. Here is the comparison I came up with...interested in additional pros and cons to consider.


Freezer based fermentation chamber

Pros
Condensation contained
Very well insulated
Protects fermentor from getting bumped into
Frees up one of the TC ports on top of fermentor
Better CIP performance without coil?

Cons
One freezer per fermentor
Need to retrofit the freezer – door panel and sturdy floor to support the conical
Can’t see the conical while fermenting (bling?)
Larger footprint than conical alone
Reduced access to the fermentor
Temperature overshoots? (my fridge experience says this would be issue with single probe temp controller but would be easily managed with dual probe controller)

Cost in addition to fermentor
$300-600 Freezer (range is used on Craigslist to brand new 20.2 cf Frigidaire) – apparently 1/4 HP compressor
$25 Retrofit materials
$25 for single probe Inkbird - $90 dual probe Auber temperature controller
$15 Reptile lamp for heat
Total $365 (CL freezer & inkbird) - $730 (new freezer & Auber)

External Glycol Chiller

Pros
Multiple fermenters different temperatures with one glycol chiller (but need TC-100 package for each)
1/3 HP chiller

Cons
Minimal insulation (can be added with increase in cost and reduction in bling) may offset advantage of larger compressor
Potential for icing on coil when trying to cool too fast
Maintenance of the glycol reservoir (keep it from drying out)
Chiller has its own footprint, and needs to be fairly close to the fermentors

Cost in addition to fermentor
$380 TC-100 bundle
$879 Penguin glycol chiller (or DIY for less than $300)
$25 Propylene Glycol
Total $700 (diy Glycol) - $1,284 (Penguin)

 

[Bilsch]

Putting a fan in there that comes on with the compressor will greatly reduce the temperature swing.

 

[Stand]

Biggest plus for me (I have a CF10 in upright) is that when I am not using fermenter I can use it to cold condition kegs.

Also, less stuff on fermenter to clean / deal with (heating element / cooling coil / insulation / glycol)

 

[Jag75]

Eric , I dont know how much space you have but that could play a part in your decision as well. I did the DIY chiller . 130$ for the ac unit , 25$ for the cooler . Caster wheels and a piece of plywood 30$ and the glycol 3 gallons 90$.

I couldnt put a freezer in my room . My chiller is 20x31. Not too bad size wise . It works great . The ac doesnt have to come on too much because the igloo chest keeps the gylcol to the set temp very good.

Either way is gonna cost you . Either way you will enjoy it . Good luck with your next step and your gonna love the spike .

 

[Blazinlow86]

I'm looking to move to fermenting in a conical and have pretty much settled on the Spike CF15.

I've been considering options for temperature control and for a while was thinking an aquarium chiller might be good strategy but got talked off that ledge and back safely into the glycol camp. Then yesterday @Blazinlow86 mentioned he was brewing with his conical in an upright freezer and posted a pic here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/spike-conical-observations-and-best-practices.645440/

Wow mind blown. Had forgotten that strategy all together which is dumb because I've been doing similar since I started, albeit using a crappy old fridge instead of a freezer. So today I've been thinking about pros and cons of "conical in freezer" vs "external glycol system" and want to see what others think. Here is the comparison I came up with...interested in additional pros and cons to consider.


Freezer based fermentation chamber

Pros
Condensation contained
Very well insulated
Protects fermentor from getting bumped into
Frees up one of the TC ports on top of fermentor
Better CIP performance without coil?

Cons
One freezer per fermentor
Need to retrofit the freezer – door panel and sturdy floor to support the conical
Can’t see the conical while fermenting (bling?)
Larger footprint than conical alone
Reduced access to the fermentor
Temperature overshoots? (my fridge experience says this would be issue with single probe temp controller but would be easily managed with dual probe controller)

Cost in addition to fermentor
$300-600 Freezer (range is used on Craigslist to brand new 20.2 cf Frigidaire) – apparently 1/4 HP compressor
$25 Retrofit materials
$25 for single probe Inkbird - $90 dual probe Auber temperature controller
$15 Reptile lamp for heat
Total $365 (CL freezer & inkbird) - $730 (new freezer & Auber)

External Glycol Chiller

Pros
Multiple fermenters different temperatures with one glycol chiller (but need TC-100 package for each)
1/3 HP chiller

Cons
Minimal insulation (can be added with increase in cost and reduction in bling) may offset advantage of larger compressor
Potential for icing on coil when trying to cool too fast
Maintenance of the glycol reservoir (keep it from drying out)
Chiller has its own footprint, and needs to be fairly close to the fermentors

Cost in addition to fermentor
$380 TC-100 bundle
$879 Penguin glycol chiller (or DIY for less than $300)
$25 Propylene Glycol
Total $700 (diy Glycol) - $1,284 (Penguin)

With the STC 1000 controller and temp probe in the thermowell I've literally never had a overshoot of temp at all. It workes perfectly. Maybe your controller was bad or as the other posted mentioned you had stratification? I wouldn't worry about that being a issue that's not easily correctable. Cheers

 

[eric19312]

With the STC 1000 controller and temp probe in the thermowell I've literally never had a overshoot of temp at all. It workes perfectly. Maybe your controller was bad or as the other posted mentioned you had stratification? I wouldn't worry about that being a issue that's not easily correctable. Cheers

Stratification is possible.... but I verified overshoot using a datalogger and a second thermowell. The Spiegel fermenter is thick walled plastic and may present different challenge than steel fermenter in terms of heat exchange.

 

[mongoose33]

As you may know, I have the Penguin and TC100 setup for my CF10. There are advantages to it, but as you already know, it's pricey.

I've never used a large freezer w/ something as large as a CF15 so I can't speak from experience with that. All I can say is when I used a refrigerator for ferm temp control and chilling with 5-gallon batches, it was easy and effective. BTW, I wouldn't use a reptile heater, I'd use a fermwrap.

One advantage to the freezer setup over the glycol approach is that you should be able to target any crash temp you want. I want 32 degrees, but cannot achieve that using glycol, as the protruberances from the fermenter act as a heat sink, making it impossible for me to get lower than about 38 degrees. Now, many say that's more than enough, and it probably is, but with glycol that's all you're likely to get. If that's fine for you, then it's not an issue.

The downside to the freezer setup is moving the fermenter. I've never tried to lift mine empty (can't do it full, period), and I suppose when empty I could lift it out of the freezer and over to the sink to clean it.

And, I'd have to do that. You cannot do a CIP without removing the sampling port and racking port valves, as gunk accumulates in those port areas. I think it would be much easier to deal with on casters. If you could put it on the short legs with casters and have a way to wheel it out of the freezer onto a platform that itself had casters....maybe....or just lift it out onto such a wheeled platform to take it to where you could place it for cleaning...

That said, one of the major advantages to the Spike is the ability to take the lid off and get down inside it to check for residue, clean the ports, etc. That's going to be a lot harder to do in a freezer unless it's rather tall.

BTW, as far as monitoring ferm activity....maybe a TILT hydrometer might work, though I'm not sure it would reach through not only the stainless fermenter as well as the walls of the freezer. There's another way to do that--you can install a blowoff tube or the pressure manifold, and run the ferm gases out of that through tubing that pass outside the freezer and into an airlock jar. I've included a few pics below showing two ways to do that. I have that on both my ferm chambers and after having done it, I can't imagine not doing it. Easy to monitor the bubbling, and then you can see when it slows down, which is generally coincident with the krausen falling.

****

One thought--if you're set on the CF15, why not order it and get it in place, clean it, set it up, and see how it feels in the space for you. You can always add the TC100 if you want, or other parts, and as long as your order is over $100 it's free shipping. It'll be longer to do that, but you'll be more certain about the approach you end up using.

****

I used bulkhead shanks to go through the wall of my refrigerator; you use swivel nuts to connect to the bulkhead shanks, and it's an elegant way to get gas into or out of the refrigerator. You have to feel around outside the refrigerator to find the warm spots where there are coils, but it's not that hard. I drilled small 1/8" holes in the skin, then used a wire coat hanger to probe around and make sure I wouldn't hit a coil when I drilled. Doing that close to the edges makes it easier to avoid them.

I added a second bulkhead shank to pass CO2 into the ferm chamber; sometimes I use it for chilling and carbonating kegs, and while I could have just put a tank and regulator inside, I liked the simplicity of this better given my setup.

I also drilled holes directly through the front top of my small ferm chamber, then ran heat mat power and Inkbird sensor through one (with grommet), and a piece of tubing through the other. No wires crossing gaskets when the door is closed.

 

[Blazinlow86]

As you may know, I have the Penguin and TC100 setup for my CF10. There are advantages to it, but as you already know, it's pricey.

I've never used a large freezer w/ something as large as a CF15 so I can't speak from experience with that. All I can say is when I used a refrigerator for ferm temp control and chilling with 5-gallon batches, it was easy and effective. BTW, I wouldn't use a reptile heater, I'd use a fermwrap.

One advantage to the freezer setup over the glycol approach is that you should be able to target any crash temp you want. I want 32 degrees, but cannot achieve that using glycol, as the protruberances from the fermenter act as a heat sink, making it impossible for me to get lower than about 38 degrees. Now, many say that's more than enough, and it probably is, but with glycol that's all you're likely to get. If that's fine for you, then it's not an issue.

The downside to the freezer setup is moving the fermenter. I've never tried to lift mine empty (can't do it full, period), and I suppose when empty I could lift it out of the freezer and over to the sink to clean it.

And, I'd have to do that. You cannot do a CIP without removing the sampling port and racking port valves, as gunk accumulates in those port areas. I think it would be much easier to deal with on casters. If you could put it on the short legs with casters and have a way to wheel it out of the freezer onto a platform that itself had casters....maybe....or just lift it out onto such a wheeled platform to take it to where you could place it for cleaning...

That said, one of the major advantages to the Spike is the ability to take the lid off and get down inside it to check for residue, clean the ports, etc. That's going to be a lot harder to do in a freezer unless it's rather tall.

BTW, as far as monitoring ferm activity....maybe a TILT hydrometer might work, though I'm not sure it would reach through not only the stainless fermenter as well as the walls of the freezer. There's another way to do that--you can install a blowoff tube or the pressure manifold, and run the ferm gases out of that through tubing that pass outside the freezer and into an airlock jar. I've included a few pics below showing two ways to do that. I have that on both my ferm chambers and after having done it, I can't imagine not doing it. Easy to monitor the bubbling, and then you can see when it slows down, which is generally coincident with the krausen falling.

****

One thought--if you're set on the CF15, why not order it and get it in place, clean it, set it up, and see how it feels in the space for you. You can always add the TC100 if you want, or other parts, and as long as your order is over $100 it's free shipping. It'll be longer to do that, but you'll be more certain about the approach you end up using.

****

I used bulkhead shanks to go through the wall of my refrigerator; you use swivel nuts to connect to the bulkhead shanks, and it's an elegant way to get gas into or out of the refrigerator. You have to feel around outside the refrigerator to find the warm spots where there are coils, but it's not that hard. I drilled small 1/8" holes in the skin, then used a wire coat hanger to probe around and make sure I wouldn't hit a coil when I drilled. Doing that close to the edges makes it easier to avoid them.

I added a second bulkhead shank to pass CO2 into the ferm chamber; sometimes I use it for chilling and carbonating kegs, and while I could have just put a tank and regulator inside, I liked the simplicity of this better given my setup.

I also drilled holes directly through the front top of my small ferm chamber, then ran heat mat power and Inkbird sensor through one (with grommet), and a piece of tubing through the other. No wires crossing gaskets when the door is closed.

View attachment 633238 View attachment 633239 View attachment 633240 View attachment 633241 View attachment 633242

I just lift mine empty onto the floor in front of the fridge/ freezer and clean it with the lid off. I generally remove all the accessories after and soak them separately for 1-2 hours in pbw. Then rinse and then soak in starsan. I then reattach the accessories and starsan the body using a hand pump sprayer and were ready to go. Takes about 10 minutes hands on time. Cheers

 

[Stand]

I have a CF10, but a CF15 would have fit.

Frost free uprights are great because they don't need much modification.

 

[eric19312]

As you may know, I have the Penguin and TC100 setup for my CF10. There are advantages to it, but as you already know, it's pricey.

I've never used a large freezer w/ something as large as a CF15 so I can't speak from experience with that. All I can say is when I used a refrigerator for ferm temp control and chilling with 5-gallon batches, it was easy and effective. BTW, I wouldn't use a reptile heater, I'd use a fermwrap.

One advantage to the freezer setup over the glycol approach is that you should be able to target any crash temp you want. I want 32 degrees, but cannot achieve that using glycol, as the protruberances from the fermenter act as a heat sink, making it impossible for me to get lower than about 38 degrees. Now, many say that's more than enough, and it probably is, but with glycol that's all you're likely to get. If that's fine for you, then it's not an issue.

The downside to the freezer setup is moving the fermenter. I've never tried to lift mine empty (can't do it full, period), and I suppose when empty I could lift it out of the freezer and over to the sink to clean it.

And, I'd have to do that. You cannot do a CIP without removing the sampling port and racking port valves, as gunk accumulates in those port areas. I think it would be much easier to deal with on casters. If you could put it on the short legs with casters and have a way to wheel it out of the freezer onto a platform that itself had casters....maybe....or just lift it out onto such a wheeled platform to take it to where you could place it for cleaning...

That said, one of the major advantages to the Spike is the ability to take the lid off and get down inside it to check for residue, clean the ports, etc. That's going to be a lot harder to do in a freezer unless it's rather tall.

BTW, as far as monitoring ferm activity....maybe a TILT hydrometer might work, though I'm not sure it would reach through not only the stainless fermenter as well as the walls of the freezer. There's another way to do that--you can install a blowoff tube or the pressure manifold, and run the ferm gases out of that through tubing that pass outside the freezer and into an airlock jar. I've included a few pics below showing two ways to do that. I have that on both my ferm chambers and after having done it, I can't imagine not doing it. Easy to monitor the bubbling, and then you can see when it slows down, which is generally coincident with the krausen falling.

****

One thought--if you're set on the CF15, why not order it and get it in place, clean it, set it up, and see how it feels in the space for you. You can always add the TC100 if you want, or other parts, and as long as your order is over $100 it's free shipping. It'll be longer to do that, but you'll be more certain about the approach you end up using.

****

Appreciate the feedback ... I also want to eventually be able to try sub 32 cold crashing after listening to Charlie Banforth’s discussion a while ago on BBR. He mentioned 30-31 as a good target.

When I get home I’m going to measure my fridge. You might be right that I could just get the fermenter for now ... then decide if I want to go coil route or freezer down the road. Pretty sure it won’t fit but worth checking.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Appreciate the feedback ... I also want to eventually be able to try sub 32 cold crashing after listening to Charlie Banforth’s discussion a while ago on BBR. He mentioned 30-31 as a good target.

When I get home I’m going to measure my fridge. You might be right that I could just get the fermenter for now ... then decide if I want to go coil route or freezer down the road. Pretty sure it won’t fit but worth checking.

I've had mine down that low but it takes awhile to get there. Also keep in mind you need to be able to get down to 38f or colder in order get typical carbonation levels. Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

Appreciate the feedback ... I also want to eventually be able to try sub 32 cold crashing after listening to Charlie Banforth’s discussion a while ago on BBR. He mentioned 30-31 as a good target.

When I get home I’m going to measure my fridge. You might be right that I could just get the fermenter for now ... then decide if I want to go coil route or freezer down the road. Pretty sure it won’t fit but worth checking.

YW. IMO, you're going about this the right way. Everybody has a different setup, brews differently, so there's no one size fits all. So, gathering data and opinions helps. I've had two back surgeries so I try to set things up so I don't have to do a lot of lifting, but for another brewer, that may not be a consideration at all. So my tendency would be to avoid having to lift a fermenter into and out of a freezer. It hurts to lift something with the center of gravity away from my body.

Let us know what you decide on, why, and how it ended up working for you.

 

[kevink]

Another pro for the freezer-based option is that brewpi is designed around them, although I think I have heard of some people using Brewpi with glycol systems. If you do the freezer-based option, definitely do Brewpi from the start. Once you use it, you will wonder how you ever fermented without it. You will not regret it!

As for the con about not being able to see the fermenter in a freezer, you can always get a beverage cooler with a glass door. I picked mine up pretty cheap on Craigslist. They are more robust than regular freezers or fridges and have no problem crashing near freezing. I have never tried, but I'm pretty sure mine will go well below freezing. You can see the solid state relays for the Brewpi on the bottom left next to the condenser.

Two more of your cons go away with this option. The floor issue and temp overshoots (the Brewpi never overshoots).

 

[yowzers]

I think the decision may hinge on whether you ever want to ferment 2 or more at different temps at the same time. If you only do one at a time, all the time, the upright is probably going to be more economical. You may even find something used. If you ever want to do two or more at the same time, the cooling coil option and glycol chiller is the way to go.

 

[eric19312]

I think the decision may hinge on whether you ever want to ferment 2 or more at different temps at the same time. If you only do one at a time, all the time, the upright is probably going to be more economical. You may even find something used. If you ever want to do two or more at the same time, the cooling coil option and glycol chiller is the way to go.

Seems like 2 fermenters is probably a push with freezers vs glycol on cost due to glycol adding per fermenter cost of coil, tubing, pump, insulation etc.

 

[eric19312]

Another pro for the freezer-based option is that brewpi is designed around them, although I think I have heard of some people using Brewpi with glycol systems. If you do the freezer-based option, definitely do Brewpi from the start. Once you use it, you will wonder how you ever fermented without it. You will not regret it!

As for the con about not being able to see the fermenter in a freezer, you can always get a beverage cooler with a glass door. I picked mine up pretty cheap on Craigslist. They are more robust than regular freezers or fridges and have no problem crashing near freezing. I have never tried, but I'm pretty sure mine will go well below freezing. You can see the solid state relays for the Brewpi on the bottom left next to the condenser.

Two more of your cons go away with this option. The floor issue and temp overshoots (the Brewpi never overshoots).

I’d be interested to compare temp control performance of the Auber dual probe vs BrewPi. I get the theoretical advantage of PID vs on off control but my experience with the Auber has been similar to what I’ve seen posted in the BrewPi forums. BrewPi gives you logging but I get that from my Tilt and my RC4 dataloggers. It’s not all in one place but the temp data log is really only interesting to me when something is going wrong with the temperature control.

 

[kevink]

I’d be interested to compare temp control performance of the Auber dual probe vs BrewPi. I get the theoretical advantage of PID vs on off control but my experience with the Auber has been similar to what I’ve seen posted in the BrewPi forums. BrewPi gives you logging but I get that from my Tilt and my RC4 dataloggers. It’s not all in one place but the temp data log is really only interesting to me when something is going wrong with the temperature control.

Brewpi only swings 0.05 degrees above and below the set point. I may be wrong, but I don't think on/off control can come close to that.

The data logging is useful in watching the progress of your fermentation. You can see fridge temps over time which is a direct indication of fermentation activity. The lower the fridge temps, the more heat the yeast are making (the more active they are). This has been amazingly helpful for me in determining when to ramp temps up to get the yeast to finish up. Logging is also cool because you can open a previous beer to see exactly what happened during it, like how long it fermented for, what temp it fermented at, when you ramped, when you crashed, etc., etc.

You can also set ramp rates. For instance, when I see fermentation slowing down (based on looking at the log), I set a ramp from fermentation temp to 70 degrees over 2 days. It is so nice and all very simple to use either from a phone or on a computer.

I guess it comes down to what kind of brewer you are. If you like to see and track every detail, tweak things to get better results, ramp, and control temps more accurately, Brewpi is great. Simple on/off control will also make great beer, though.

 

[Stand]

I can't overstate how nice BrewPi is.

Superior control, Fermentation Profiles, and logging (I have an ispindel connected as well).

It's just fantastic.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I can't overstate how nice BrewPi is.

Superior control, Fermentation Profiles, and logging (I have an ispindel connected as well).

It's just fantastic.

I'm interested in setting up brewpi but can't seem to find the best current method. Most of the tutorials are possible outdated. Do you still need the Arduino? Cheers

 

[jcav]

I went the conical in an upright freezer route about four years ago and I am very happy with this setup. I have a long thermowell attached to the top that reaches about halfway down into the conical. I put my probe from my Ranco digital controller into the thermowell and set any temp I like. I also can cold crash down to any temp I need as well. It's been one of the best upgrades to my brewery and I think accurately controlling yeast temps is the most important thing in making excellent beer. Good luck on your decision.

John

 

[Stand]

I am using the Fermentrack route. It uses an ESP8266. Thorrak has a PCB for it that simplifies the build a lot.

http://www.fermentrack.com

http://tinybat.ch

Cheers!

 

[eric19312]

Hey Mongoose I’ve got a 20cf upright freezer on the way. I’m liking your bulkheads for getting gas in/out of the chamber. Quick question...Why not mount on door instead of in wall? Seems to reduce risk of bricking the freezer. Am thinking if bulkheads are on side of door that has hinges would not require too much gas line mobility.

 

[TallDan]

Looks like he's got the same upright freezer as I do. No coolant lines on the back of that unit, only the top and sides.

That said, i switched to glycol for my fermentation temp control. Too much overshoot for me with the freezer.

 

[Bilsch]

A small fan switched with the compressor solved the temp overshoot in the upright for me.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I have a CF10, but a CF15 would have fit.

Frost free uprights are great because they don't need much modification.

View attachment 633271

maybe a dumb question, but how do you fill this thing from your kettle if its inside the freezer? Assuming its too heavy to move.

 

[Blazinlow86]

maybe a dumb question, but how do you fill this thing from your kettle if its inside the freezer? Assuming its too heavy to move.

You pump into it. Cheers

 

[jcav]

I don't know what happened to my post but here it is again as this is what I meant to type. It got cut up somehow.

I went the conical in an upright freezer route about four years ago and I am very happy with this setup. I have a tri clover tee attached to the top of the conical. On the top of the tee I have a long thermowell attached to the top that reaches about halfway down into the conical. On the side tee portion I attach a blow of tube or an air lock. I put my probe from my Ranco digital controller into the top thermowell and set any temp I like. I also can cold crash down to any temp I need as well. When I transfer the beer into the keg I take off the air lock and attach a tri clover ball lock gas post (got it from Bobby M ) and attach my C02 gas line to this. I can then transfer under pressure into my purged kegs. I can also use C02 any time I want, like when I open the hatch to dry hop. I can then purge many times with C02. It's been one of the best upgrades to my brewery and I think accurately controlling yeast temps is the most important thing in making excellent beer. Good luck on your decision.

John

 

[jcav]

maybe a dumb question, but how do you fill this thing from your kettle if its inside the freezer? Assuming its too heavy to move.

Good question actually. My 14.5 gallon conical is on casters (wheels) and once I fill it up as I brew on my back lanai, I then wheel it over to my garage. It has two swing out handles that are welded to the conical. My brewing partner (son) and I then lift it into the freezer. Works great.

John

 

[mongoose33]

Good question actually. My 14.5 gallon conical is on casters (wheels) and once I fill it up as I brew on my back lanai, I then wheel it over to my garage. It has two swing out handles that are welded to the conical. My brewing partner (son) and I then lift it into the freezer. Works great.

John

Let me add one small thing: I think it depends on the make and model of the conical as to whether you can do that. I have a spike CF10 and I believe they recommend NOT using the handles to lift when it's full. You may have a different make/model where the handles are, well, handled differently.

 

[eric19312]

So I went with CF15 in the upright freezer. For now no legs no casters. I brewed with tight overhead for last 3 years and am going to decide if the extra height of the shorty legs (9") is really necessary for kegging.

I will be lifting it empty into the freezer and then pumping it full through the bottom drain as suggested by Spike. I have about 10' run from my BK pump to freezer.

Anyway thanks for everyone who added their thoughts on the original question.

 

[jcav]

Let me add one small thing: I think it depends on the make and model of the conical as to whether you can do that. I have a spike CF10 and I believe they recommend NOT using the handles to lift when it's full. You may have a different make/model where the handles are, well, handled differently.

Yes you are absolutely right mongoose, mine can definitely be lifted as it is a Blichmann Fermenator. Other brand conicals I do not think can be lifted by the handles when they are full.

John

 

[speavler]

Before I invested in the glycol chiller, I used a side-by-side fridge with a bucket of glycol and two pumps in the freezer side with insulated heater hoses run through the in-door ice dispenser. I have a pic of that setup somewhere. It worked well with two fermenters, except for cold crashing. Could sometimes only get down to 42 degrees or so. The glycol chiller has been worry-free. For me, I couldn't limit myself to one fermentation going at a time.