Conical fermenters

[Golddiggie]

Naturally

Did you do HiFi before you turned to brewing?

I don't do low end in anything. I go at least mid-grade. If I can afford high end, I go for it. IME, you actually end up spending less this way. Since far too often you end up needing to replace the low end items far sooner than anything else. Which usually drives people to get a higher tier, which means they spend more than if they had just done that from the start. "Buy once, cry once".

Like the motto many use for Harbor Freight... "cheap tools sold for cheap".

 

[jambop]

I don't do low end in anything. I go at least mid-grade. If I can afford high end, I go for it. IME, you actually end up spending less this way. Since far too often you end up needing to replace the low end items far sooner than anything else. Which usually drives people to get a higher tier, which means they spend more than if they had just done that from the start. "Buy once, cry once".

Like the motto many use for Harbor Freight... "cheap tools sold for cheap".

I understand what you are saying BUT most of the things you are referring to as needs eg pressure containment are not a requirement for me. I also think that there is very definitely a point at which shiny is good regardless of cost. I am setting out to make a drop of drinkable home made beer not win awards. I have worked in science , cell and molecular biology, all my life up to retirement at the ripe old age of 55 so I understand the pitfalls of sloppy cleanliness . At the price point of €365 the Brewmonk vessel looks to be excellent value for someone wanting to improve their setup without breaking the bank BUT I am actually fighting an internal battle with my senses over shiny versus common sense. When I think back to a project I worked on in gene editing using yeast which was grown up every other week in a couple of 5L flasks with nothing other than a cotton wool bung with a bit of tin foil over the top to protect I am thinking don't be a fool stick with a plastic bucket

 

[Golddiggie]

I've learned, over the years, that thinking "oh, that will be good enough for me" is almost never true long term. In a fairly short amount of time I end up wishing I had spent a bit more and gotten the additional features (or functionality) that the (sometimes slightly) more expensive version brought to the table.
You say you don't care about not being able to handle any pressure level, but I suspect you'll want to do things later that would require that feature/capability.

I've not entered any competitions (so far) so I don't get things with that in mind. I look at things with other parameters in mind.
Will I [still] get great beer with this?
Will it make things easier on ME? <-- biggest factor typically
Does it offer features that I can take advantage of in the future?

Things need to hit at least two of those parameters (. To date, the items I've changed/purchased (at least over the past two years) follow them. Even with the large sum of money I dropped last year on gear. I'm about to purchase another item that will make labeling cans (can do bottles too) easier on me. Plus it will make the process take less time, and be easier for me.

A common saying in my day job... "Good, fast, or cheap. Pick two."

 

[jambop]

I've learned, over the years, that thinking "oh, that will be good enough for me" is almost never true long term. In a fairly short amount of time I end up wishing I had spent a bit more and gotten the additional features (or functionality) that the (sometimes slightly) more expensive version brought to the table.
You say you don't care about not being able to handle any pressure level, but I suspect you'll want to do things later that would require that feature/capability.

I've not entered any competitions (so far) so I don't get things with that in mind. I look at things with other parameters in mind.
Will I [still] get great beer with this?
Will it make things easier on ME? <-- biggest factor typically
Does it offer features that I can take advantage of in the future?

Things need to hit at least two of those parameters (. To date, the items I've changed/purchased (at least over the past two years) follow them. Even with the large sum of money I dropped last year on gear. I'm about to purchase another item that will make labeling cans (can do bottles too) easier on me. Plus it will make the process take less time, and be easier for me.

A common saying in my day job... "Good, fast, or cheap. Pick two."

I am 67 for god sakes

 

[Golddiggie]

I am 67 for god sakes

So... I'll be 52 this year...

If anything, with your being 67, you should be looking at getting things to make this easier on yourself.

 

[boilermaker]

I’ve looked long and hard at conicals over the past year as they’ve become popular, for all the benefits everyone mentions above, but the only thing that’s kept me from buying one is the cleaning process. I brew 5 gallon batches so I don’t need, want, or have room for a 10 gallon fermenter, so I’d want a smaller conical designed for 5 gallon batches. However, a conical on legs/wheels won’t fit in my sink for cleaning (I have a large commercial sink) which to me means you have to clean/rinse/drain with buckets or a pump with hoses. I use a small pump but it’s not big enough for a CIP, so if I bought a conical I feel I’d also have to invest in a new pump, CIP ball, get more hoses and fittings, etc. Seemed like more that I wanted to deal with.

So I bought a Spike Flex+, and love it. It has all the advantages of a CF5 conical (except the dump valve at the bottom of the cone), including pressure capability and all TC fittings, but I can easily clean the thing in my sink just like one of my stainless brew buckets. I don’t harvest yeast and for me, the ability to easily clean is a huge benefit. At the end of the day you have to get what you think fits your needs best.

 

[Golddiggie]

I've had two March/Chugger pumps for over a decade now. So that part was no issue. I went with the TC heads last year to make things easier (connections). With the manifold I built up last summer, it's even easier on me. NOT a cheap assembly, but works damned well, and makes less mess than my old method.

I don't have a sink in the basement/garage, so being able to put something into it was not a concern. I'd LIKE to have a sink, and will in my next place. But that will be more for cleaning kettles than wanting to get the conical into it. I'll probably run the final solutions into the sink (unless I have a floor drain) as part of the process.

IME, a CIP system makes cleaning anything that CAN use it, easier. I'm glad I have the one I use in the conical fermenters. I have another I use on the Bucket Blaster to clean kegs.

Keep in mind, if you're not using HOT PBW, a sump pump will do the job. Keep the solution under it's temperature limit and you'll be fine.

 

[eric19312]

The problem with that Brewmonk fermentor is it is not going to do a great job on some of the key benefits available from a stainless steel conical fermenter.

I looked around and found a pretty well written article on the decision process: Are Conical Fermenters Worth It?

The author lists following advantages of a conical and discusses unitank vs conical.
Ability to dump trub and harvest yeast (called best reason to own a conical)
Easy to eliminate oxygen
Easier pressure transfers
Fun with accessories - to me getting into Tri Clamp was a bit like a kid discovering Legos
Smoother process and workflow
Ferment under pressure (unitanks)
Carbonate beer in fermentor (unitanks)

With downsides being
More complicated cleaning
Larger/more costly temperature control

My problem with the Brewmonk and similar very low end conicals is
- Trub dumping and yeast harvesting is going to be difficult with that shallow cone so the best reason to have a conical is compromised
- Oxygen elimination and pressure transfers are going to depend on how good of seal you are able to get. Maybe it will be fine. Probably not harder than doing them with a SS Brewtech brew bucket but not as easy as with a sealed tank that will hold a few PSI of pressure.
- you are taking the more already complicated cleaning process and making it much harder with the threaded connections inside the vessel. The quality of the welds is also important to ability to clean. We have no data on this point but none of those reviewers shared any pictures of the welds which is at least a yellow flag circling back to the price point.

I think there are better choices that are in your price range. If you do buy it please come back and let us know how it worked out. Most of us commenting have pulled trigger on more expensive units and so probably have a sense of needing to defend our purchasing decisions. [wikipedia says: Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected and/or to demote the forgone options.] If we are dumping on a perfectly good product without even seeing it first hand it would be good for somebody that has one to let future thread readers know.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I started brewing in plastic buckets then moved to big mouth bubblers then to a stainless brewbucket then to a plastic "All Rounder" for pressure fermentation and have now upgraded to a Spike CF5 unitank.

I brewed award winning beers with all these fermenters (except the unitank because I haven't used it yet) but each step up made sense to me at the time based on my set up and what I hoped to accomplish.

I am at a point now in my life where I have the extra coin to spend on a pricey conical and am looking forward to the benefits that have already been mentioned here (yeast harvesting, pressure fermentation etc.), but 5 years ago I never thought I'd own a conical.

If it doesn't make sense to you now to spend the money on one then go with a cheaper option and focus on brewing the best beer you can with that set up. One day you may find that your wallet and priorities are in a place that makes buying a conical the next logical step in your brewing journey, or maybe it never will.

Like you, we have brewed good beer in both plastic fermenters (Genesis) and stainless conicals (Delta).

You can make great beer in almost anything.

Like a famous BBQ Chef said, "It's not the pit, it's the pitmaster."

 

[jambop]

The problem with that Brewmonk fermentor is it is not going to do a great job on some of the key benefits available from a stainless steel conical fermenter.

I looked around and found a pretty well written article on the decision process: Are Conical Fermenters Worth It?

The author lists following advantages of a conical and discusses unitank vs conical.
Ability to dump trub and harvest yeast (called best reason to own a conical)
Easy to eliminate oxygen
Easier pressure transfers
Fun with accessories - to me getting into Tri Clamp was a bit like a kid discovering Legos
Smoother process and workflow
Ferment under pressure (unitanks)
Carbonate beer in fermentor (unitanks)

With downsides being
More complicated cleaning
Larger/more costly temperature control

My problem with the Brewmonk and similar very low end conicals is
- Trub dumping and yeast harvesting is going to be difficult with that shallow cone so the best reason to have a conical is compromised
- Oxygen elimination and pressure transfers are going to depend on how good of seal you are able to get. Maybe it will be fine. Probably not harder than doing them with a SS Brewtech brew bucket but not as easy as with a sealed tank that will hold a few PSI of pressure.
- you are taking the more already complicated cleaning process and making it much harder with the threaded connections inside the vessel. The quality of the welds is also important to ability to clean. We have no data on this point but none of those reviewers shared any pictures of the welds which is at least a yellow flag circling back to the price point.

I think there are better choices that are in your price range. If you do buy it please come back and let us know how it worked out. Most of us commenting have pulled trigger on more expensive units and so probably have a sense of needing to defend our purchasing decisions. [wikipedia says: Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected and/or to demote the forgone options.] If we are dumping on a perfectly good product without even seeing it first hand it would be good for somebody that has one to let future thread readers know.

No argument!
I have completely revised my plan. I am sticking with plastic bins but am going to change out the taps for a simple but easily cleaned valve. I have been using the plastic bucket for years before I returned to brewing but for me the main problem has always been the taps. I ferment and bottle from the initial fermentation bin, no secondary, and have had no problems at all doing that but the plastic taps they come with are poor and leak after taking apart to sanitise so I will change those for a simple ball valve tap easy to clean and cheap.

 

[WesBrew]

SS is worth the investment because it lasts a lifetime. as mentioned above these aren’t really a need ,more of a want but it does have a lot of capabilities and looks badass in the brew room.
I can spund, dump trub, harvest yeast, pressure ferment, carb under pressure ferment or connect gas and carb that way. Connect glycol to coil, drink out of the sample port, closed pressure transfer to kegs. With trub dumped, I can make another beer and dump it on top of the yeast cake & clean in place

 

[jambop]

SS is worth the investment because it lasts a lifetime. as mentioned above these aren’t really a need ,more of a want but it does have a lot of capabilities and looks badass in the brew room.
I can spund, dump trub, harvest yeast, pressure ferment, carb under pressure ferment or connect gas and carb that way. Connect glycol to coil, drink out of the sample port, closed pressure transfer to kegs. With trub dumped, I can make another beer and dump it on top of the yeast cake & clean in place

Like I say Home brewing the new HiFi. Its not what you make its they way that you make it

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Truth be known, at the end of the day you can brew excellent beer in a plastic bucket. They are inexpensive. After multiple uses, you can simply discard them and buy a new one. For pennies on the dollar as opposed to a Stainless Conical.

In Hi-Fi terms, it is wise to put your money where you can hear the difference. Speakers. Even lower end stereo amplifiers will sound great with good speakers. But a McIntosh will not sound so great on cheap speakers.

Stainless is nice. Easy to care for, lasts a long time.

I would do whatever fits your budget. Spend a little or spend a lot.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Brewing is like any other hobby, spend a little or spend a lot - whatever it takes to brew the beer you like and enjoy the brewing part. Over time you can upgrade as you see fit with what you want to invest in plastic or stainless or better sounding speakers.

 

[WesBrew]

If you want to go to non-disposable SS, but don’t want to drop $$$ for a conical , an Anvil bucket fermentor is a nice, low cost investment that will last forever

 

[jambop]

If you want to go to non-disposable SS, but don’t want to drop $$$ for a conical , an Anvil bucket fermentor is a nice, low cost investment that will last forever

Can't buy those here but it is made in China too so no different to most of the other stuff. It is more or less identical to so many other things on the market made in China and give several names. You would have to go over all these things with a micrometer and a microscope to spot differences they are that minimal. People think these things are made in the US are being misled the parent company may be US but that Anvil gear is Chinese, as is Grainather ,Brewmonk , beerzilla the list goes on and on. I buy stuff now from reputable well known Germany companies... all Chinese manufactured but you have to find the mark. Not that there is anything at all wrong with that their stuff can be very good... just look at the guitars the make in most cases excellent bang for buck. They are by and large an intelligent people and western companies recognise that and supply them with the most up to date machines and tooling to knock out cheap goods of high quality.

 

[jambop]

Brewing is like any other hobby, spend a little or spend a lot - whatever it takes to brew the beer you like and enjoy the brewing part. Over time you can upgrade as you see fit with what you want to invest in plastic or stainless or better sounding speakers.

Exactly! I just upgraded my fermentation monitoring ... bought a second hand larder fridge and an Ink bird controller ... €70 for the two. My wife was bending my ear you would be better off buying a new fridge... I say why €300 for the same fridge?? Even if I only get a year out of the thing I buy another one second hand there are loads of them out there and there is no guarantee a new one will be any more reliable than an old one.