Competition Submissions and Recipe Ethics

[Brutus Brewer]

I know that the recipe is only one variable in the equation that yields a finished product, but when it comes to entering a beer into competition is there an established guideline as to the origins of the recipe? For example, I recently brewed Humann_Brewing Widmer Hefe clone and if it turns out good I’d like to submit it in a local competition, however since I didn’t develop the recipe on my own I don’t want to be accused of plagiarizing another’s work; I did change some of the amounts and types of the grains and didn’t make the recipe verbatim, but I still more or less copied his recipe. What are your thoughts?

 

[remilard]

There is no unwritten rule requiring the recipe to be original.

You should probably look at the rules of a competition before you enter it, but I have never seen a written rule requiring that either.

 

[Edcculus]

Homebrewing and brewing in general is a very open community. There are no rules about copying a recipe. Look at McDole's Samuel Adam's Long Shot winner last year. It was a Pliny The Elder clone. The recipe is a big part of the beer, but its the brewer who makes that recipe in to a great beer. If you win with a recipe from the recipe database, a lot of brewers let the recipe author know. It kind of feels good when people start winning comps with your recipe.

 

[Bobby_M]

We're coming off a pretty long debate about competition ethics with regard to blending and I anticipate just as many opinions about recipe origin. I personally feel that once a recipe is publish anywhere, it's fair game for ANY purpose.

 

[mmb]

We're coming off a pretty long debate about competition ethics with regard to blending and I anticipate just as many opinions about recipe origin. I personally feel that once a recipe is publish anywhere, it's fair game for ANY purpose.

Agreed. It's not a piece of paper that makes a beer. It's the brewer.

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

There is far more to brewing a beer than just a recipe. Anything recipe that is openly available should be fair game for competitions.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't see how anyone can patent a recipe, or copyright, or trademark, or whatever. That's why companies guard they recipes so carefully

Anyway, different brewers will nearly always come away with a somewhat different-tasting beer, simply due to there being so many variables that can change, especially with mashing, hops, temp control.

 

[remilard]

Plus a list of grains and hops is far from a complete recipe. Fermentation conditions, mash and finished beer pH, packaging etc can have just as much of an impact as the grain or hop bill. In fact, a very poor or very good beer can be made with any sensible combination of grains and hops. The part of the recipe that people are copying is generally not all that important.

 

[Heckle]

Don't forget the differences in water.

 

[giligson]

Remember most beer competitions are based on brewing as close as you can to the standard in a particular category. But, there are occasional fun competitions that will have everyone brew with the same recipe or the same grain combo or the same mystery ingredient.

 

[Airborneguy]

They cannot be legally protected, and I am sure this has been tested in court somewhere down the line, so they are obviously fair game.

 

[EricCSU]

As was written earlier, the recipe is only part of the beer. The process and packaging is just as important.

McDole is a perfect example for this argument. He won the longshot with a clone beer, then he was the pro-am brewer for that same brewery the next year. He freely shares any of his recipes and will help anybody with their recipes.

Eric

 

[Batinse]

While this story may be apocryphal, it is nonetheless illustrative: During the height of the single malt whisky craze in Japan, Suntory Ltd decided to rebuild brick by brick the Bowmore distillery from Islay, Scotland in Japan, in an attempt to capture the distinctive taste. They copied the procedure exactly, used the same equipment, the same recipe, everything--and yet the desired flavour eluded them. Of course, their whisky was perfectly fine too, but when it comes to God's greatest creations (that is, Beer & Whisky) mimicry just can't get the job done.

I also remember a This American Life episode about hot dogs, where an old hot dog factory finaly upgraded its building, but for some reason, after they did, despite using the same equipment and ingredients, the hot dogs were a weird colour and had some odd off-flavour. Try as they might, they couldn't fix the problem--until they realized that in the old factory, which was convoluted and jury-rigged during a hundred years of off-and-on expansion, they had an employee who carried the finished sausages from the casing machine to the smoke-house. And, because of all the corridors and doorways, the trip took about 35 minutes--an ageing process they hadn't accounted for in the new building, and which they had to simulate to regain the old, traditional flavour!

So, recipes, which can't be copyrighted by law, btw, are really just a fraction of the whole brewing/distilling/sausage-making process!

 

[maida7]

As was written earlier, the recipe is only part of the beer. The process and packaging is just as important.

McDole is a perfect example for this argument. He won the longshot with a clone beer, then he was the pro-am brewer for that same brewery the next year. He freely shares any of his recipes and will help anybody with their recipes.

Eric

What do you think of the Janet's Brown? I'm getting ready to make that recipe myself. If it turns out good, I'll probably end up entering it in a comp.

 

[IrregularPulse]

It's a brewing competition right? Not a recipe formulation competition? You and Humann could both brew this beer and it would taste slightly different. Just don't use bottles that he sent you!

 

[EricCSU]

What do you think of the Janet's Brown? I'm getting ready to make that recipe myself. If it turns out good, I'll probably end up entering it in a comp.

Love it. I made my first batch the day before thanksgiving. I just made another batch yesterday so I woudn't run out. It may be a beer that I always have around. It will have a very intense hop aroma right away, but that mellows over time. Tasty McDole talked about it during a TBN podcast and he thinks the sweet spot for the beer is 8 weeks after brewing. That was a couple weeks ago for my first batch and I tend to agree. It was drinkable at 4 weeks, but it got much more balanced as time went on. Right now it is just beautiful. I am trying to save some for some company I have coming over, but it is hard not to drink a pint (or three!) every night.

There are several versions of the recipe out there. I would think that the version with a lower gravity (around 1066) would work better in the American Brown category. Even then, it is out of style, but it is so drinkable that it might do well. I can't remember what category he won NHC gold in, but you could probably look it up on the AHA website. It wasn't American Brown.

Eric

 

[EricCSU]

Just don't use bottles that he sent you!

Yeah, that would be a big no-no.

Eric

 

[Willie3]

As long as the beer is not blended then it is OK... (oops.... can of worms...) o/j

Like I have stated in my other posts under the blending forum, beer is a conglomerate of factors that have to become one final product. The recipe is one factor in a whole slew of factors even if one chooses to blend to recipes together or not. (oops there I go again....)

 

[Beerrific]

It is a homebrewing contest not a recipe writing contest, right?

 

[conpewter]

Totally fine to enter the competition. Especially since you adjusted the recipe, but even if you didn't, you used your water, and the grains/hops you bought etc, it will always taste slightly different than how someone else brews it anyway.

 

[remilard]

McDole won category 23 for Janet's Brown. That beer should not do well as American Brown since it is IPA strength and the guidelines explicitly say to put IPA strength beers in 23.

 

[Beerrific]

McDole won category 23 for Janet's Brown. That beer should not do well as American Brown since it is IPA strength and the guidelines explicitly say to put IPA strength beers in 23.

Should not and do not are completely different things.

Depends a lot on the judges and placement in the flight. I have won two 1st place ribbons with that beer.

 

[conpewter]

Beerrific why don't you have your version of Janet's brown in your recipe dropdown?

 

[remilard]

Should not and do not are completely different things.

Depends a lot on the judges and placement in the flight. I have won two 1st place ribbons with that beer.

I agree but it likely would not in the second round of the NHC. It makes a good beer but you aren't going to get through a large number of very experienced judges without one of them calling it for being exactly what the style guideline says should not be entered.

I wonder if McDole enters it in both for the NHC, as he as only had success in 23 (second round anyway).

 

[Beerrific]

Beerrific why don't you have your version of Janet's brown in your recipe dropdown?

Well, because my version is his version, and that is all over the web. I did it exactly except I did not build my water to match his profile, but I did add a bit of gypsum.

 

[conpewter]

Ah gotchya, didn't know if you made a modification to change it to a 5 gallon recipe like some so, or just go with the 6 gal recipe from the book. (I usually do 5.5 gallon recipes as I don't loose much in the boil kettle at all)

 

[EricCSU]

Ah gotchya, didn't know if you made a modification to change it to a 5 gallon recipe like some so, or just go with the 6 gal recipe from the book. (I usually do 5.5 gallon recipes as I don't loose much in the boil kettle at all)

I modified mine for batch size and my batch of Northern Brewer was much higher AA than his was. Turned out fantastic.

If you haven't made it, you really should.

Eric

 

[david_42]

Recipes are not part of the competition, just the beer.

But if you brew something from HBT and win, be certain to post. I'm certain the originator would appreciate it.