I am at the point in my brewing where I feel confident entering my beers in competitions. Anyone have any advice or methods to determine what to brew?I'm thinkng of obsessing on a particular style and working on try to nail it till I get a winner (English and American browns). What do you do ? Submit whatever you have on deck? Over think things?
Competition advice or thoughts
- Thread starter Vongo
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I am not a big comp guy myself but it depends on what you want from them. Do you just want honest feedback or are you trying to "win" a category. If winning is your goal I would stick to the less popular styles. There always seems to be a ton of entries for IPA for example. I will submit whatever I have to my local county fair because it is free to enter, otherwise I only submit beers that I feel are really good. You figure by the time you pay for entry fees, packaging, and shipping......well you could of paid for the makings of another 5 gallon batch of beer. Everyone will tell you that the comps are subjective because they are!! I have had scoresheets where one judge will say something like "too hoppy for the style" and another judge will write "could use more hops". Take it with a grain of salt.....
BrewThruYou
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I got on my Blonde Ale. Too hoppy for style and needs more hops on separate sheets.
If you are brewing pale ales or IPAs, go big or go home. I brewed a 110+ IBU Citra IPA that was told needed more hops...and friends and fellow brewers thought it was a hop bomb. I entered a more balanced IPA (a good clone of a listed IPA example) and was told it should've been entered as a Pale Ale. Judges in those categories will have wrecked palates before long...you need your beer to stand out. My new strategy is enter IPAs into Pale Ale and IIPAs into IPA.
I only enter local comps and I'll submit most of what I have as long as it has a reasonable chance. If I brew something out of style, it's a waste of money to enter it in a BJCP comp IMO. I've had some really good beers (Hoppy Wheat & extra Roasty Irish Red) that the judges said were great but just not to style.
KevinW
Well-Known Member
Enter what you have on hand. Worst case is you can get some feedback that may help you improve your process! I have improved quite a bit by entering what I have.
I do not worry about what categories to enter because if you make good beer then it will carry itself! I had two beers score the exact same, one took 3rd (14 entries) the other didn't even place and there were 12 entries in that category!
As far as styles, well with homebrewing you can brew whatever you want so you should already be brewing what you like! When you get more comfortable with your process then you may want to branch into more "complicated" beer styles.
Just be prepared to spend some money on entry fees and possibly shipping fees. I am very lucky here because there are about 6 LHBS's nearby and most of them will take entries to competitions for free so I have saved a lot by not having to ship my entries!
Enter away and have fun and who knows, you just may be winning some Best of Show's before you know it!!
Good luck!
I do not worry about what categories to enter because if you make good beer then it will carry itself! I had two beers score the exact same, one took 3rd (14 entries) the other didn't even place and there were 12 entries in that category!
As far as styles, well with homebrewing you can brew whatever you want so you should already be brewing what you like! When you get more comfortable with your process then you may want to branch into more "complicated" beer styles.
Just be prepared to spend some money on entry fees and possibly shipping fees. I am very lucky here because there are about 6 LHBS's nearby and most of them will take entries to competitions for free so I have saved a lot by not having to ship my entries!
Enter away and have fun and who knows, you just may be winning some Best of Show's before you know it!!
Good luck!
When starting out, I think it's a great idea to try different competitions. Especially if you *think* you are done goofing around with your system.
BUT! Competitions are really only useful if you get enough data. As mentioned, different judges have different tastes, and it may take a couple of competitions to feel like you get a consensus. Be sure to enter them near the same time, as flavors change and fade over time.
BUT! Competitions are really only useful if you get enough data. As mentioned, different judges have different tastes, and it may take a couple of competitions to feel like you get a consensus. Be sure to enter them near the same time, as flavors change and fade over time.
scottland
Well-Known Member
1. Temper your expectations. Judges judge directly to style. You can have an excellent beer, but if it's not exactly how the style defines, you'll lose points. I had a Sweet stout that wasn't sweet enough. One judge wrote on my scorecard: this beer would have placed in dry stout category, great beer, but not to style. I got a 32 on it. Also, try to enter a couple different competitions. I've had judges that were WAY off.
2. Unless all the judges pick up on a flaw or off flavor, don't assume they're 100% right. If you get 3 scoresheets back, and they all say the same thing, then they're probably right. Some judges really try to 'look' for flaws even if there aren't any.
3. I usually just submit whatever I have at the time. If it is a good beer, i'd like to see how it fairs against other good beers, so I'll submit it. I Just submitted an Imperial IPA that's 3 months old. It was at it's best about a month ago, but I know that going in. The big hop aroma is starting to fade, so I'm just hoping for the best.
4. Drop off your beer as late as possible. You don't know how they are going to store your beers (light, heat, etc), so it's best to keep them safe at home until a couple days before the beers are due. If you need to ship the beer somewhere, ship it at the beginning of the week so it won't sit in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
5. As someone said above. Go by score, not by place. I've had a pale ale score a 39 and not place, and I've also seen people win best of show with a 39. Number of participants, quality of their beers, your position in the flight, what the judges had for breakfast, etc, can all affect how well you do. Don't take it personally.
That's about it. I like competitions mainly for the feedback. You'll get an objective review of your beer that your friends most likely won't give you.
2. Unless all the judges pick up on a flaw or off flavor, don't assume they're 100% right. If you get 3 scoresheets back, and they all say the same thing, then they're probably right. Some judges really try to 'look' for flaws even if there aren't any.
3. I usually just submit whatever I have at the time. If it is a good beer, i'd like to see how it fairs against other good beers, so I'll submit it. I Just submitted an Imperial IPA that's 3 months old. It was at it's best about a month ago, but I know that going in. The big hop aroma is starting to fade, so I'm just hoping for the best.
4. Drop off your beer as late as possible. You don't know how they are going to store your beers (light, heat, etc), so it's best to keep them safe at home until a couple days before the beers are due. If you need to ship the beer somewhere, ship it at the beginning of the week so it won't sit in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
5. As someone said above. Go by score, not by place. I've had a pale ale score a 39 and not place, and I've also seen people win best of show with a 39. Number of participants, quality of their beers, your position in the flight, what the judges had for breakfast, etc, can all affect how well you do. Don't take it personally.
That's about it. I like competitions mainly for the feedback. You'll get an objective review of your beer that your friends most likely won't give you.
4. Drop off your beer as late as possible. You don't know how they are going to store your beers (light, heat, etc), so it's best to keep them safe at home until a couple days before the beers are due. If you need to ship the beer somewhere, ship it at the beginning of the week so it won't sit in a hot warehouse over the weekend.
5. As someone said above. Go by score, not by place. I've had a pale ale score a 39 and not place, and I've also seen people win best of show with a 39. Number of participants, quality of their beers, your position in the flight, what the judges had for breakfast, etc, can all affect how well you do. Don't take it personally.
[/QUOTE]
These are awesome points !
thanks
5. As someone said above. Go by score, not by place. I've had a pale ale score a 39 and not place, and I've also seen people win best of show with a 39. Number of participants, quality of their beers, your position in the flight, what the judges had for breakfast, etc, can all affect how well you do. Don't take it personally.
[/QUOTE]
These are awesome points !
thanks
TheBrewinator
Well-Known Member
Good call on dropping it off as late as possible. I had a cream ale that a BJCP judge said was light struck. There was no way that was on my end as I just had one of them the other day that was bottled and stored on my end the exact same way, no skunk at all. The beer was obviously mishandled at some point after it had left my hands.
Also be ready for some silly comments. On that same beer, I had novice judges write that it wasn't creamy enough for a cream ale. I just had to shake my head at that one.
Also be ready for some silly comments. On that same beer, I had novice judges write that it wasn't creamy enough for a cream ale. I just had to shake my head at that one.
KellyK
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To get the most bang for your buck and beer sacrifice, find out what the respected competitions are before you enter. There are some competitions that the organizers go to great lengths to get lots of BJCP certified and up level judges, there are others that are a take what you can get kind of thing. The judging pool at a competition is also affected by the number of certified and higher judges in the area of the competition to pull from. For example Colorado, where I live, has a huge number of BJCP judges so I think the feeback from any competition in our state (with a few exceptions) is going to be real helpful. If there's less of a beer community where you're sending your competition beer, logic would suggest there would be less BJCP judges available for the competition to use. If you are more concerned with feedback, I'd opt for the method of entering the biggest most reputable competitions you can find.
To follow up on the score not placement advise above, that's pretty true except there are some judging pannels where you get more stingy judges. If you take a 1st place with a 36, don't think it's a "36" beer that would score similarly in another competition. More likely it was the best beer on the table (either due to a weak field or stingy judges) and weigh that consideration accordingly.
Never judge a beer by a single competition. We have a Smoked Porter that scored in 5 competitions as follows - 26 "smelled like a grill", 42 "best smoked porter I've ever had - 1st place", 32 - "lacks smoked character", 44 "send me the recipe - 1st place", 41 "great example of the style - 2nd place" As objective as we BJCP judges try to be, there is always going to be a lot of variability between judging panels, particularly for any of the more "subjective" categories like oak/smoke, specialty, IIPA.
If you're wanting to win and be a better brewer at the same time but still keeping out of the lagers, I'd suggest the Light Hybrid, Amber Hybrid, and English Brown categories to work on making a really good beer contender. These are typically some of the lesser entered categories in competitions but the beers in these styles also have pretty straightforward guidelines that helps keep the judging a bit less variable.
Lastly, a word on interpreting comment sheets. One of the earlier posters said if all three judges note a particular off it's probably there. Yes and no. Look for where the comments are written on the score sheets. If the off or flaw is noted early on in the space provided, ie: in the first two lines on the Aroma, most likely the judge is picking it up during the "silent" portion of the judging. However, if it's written on like an afterthought at the end of the sections - I see this often with oxidation - it's possible one judge picked it up (or thought they picked it up) and said so to the other judges at the table who then wrote it down whether they independently picked it up on not. Sort of the power of suggestion / peer pressure type response. We try to tell judges not to write down comments that they do not independently assess, but not everyone follows that instruction.
To follow up on the score not placement advise above, that's pretty true except there are some judging pannels where you get more stingy judges. If you take a 1st place with a 36, don't think it's a "36" beer that would score similarly in another competition. More likely it was the best beer on the table (either due to a weak field or stingy judges) and weigh that consideration accordingly.
Never judge a beer by a single competition. We have a Smoked Porter that scored in 5 competitions as follows - 26 "smelled like a grill", 42 "best smoked porter I've ever had - 1st place", 32 - "lacks smoked character", 44 "send me the recipe - 1st place", 41 "great example of the style - 2nd place" As objective as we BJCP judges try to be, there is always going to be a lot of variability between judging panels, particularly for any of the more "subjective" categories like oak/smoke, specialty, IIPA.
If you're wanting to win and be a better brewer at the same time but still keeping out of the lagers, I'd suggest the Light Hybrid, Amber Hybrid, and English Brown categories to work on making a really good beer contender. These are typically some of the lesser entered categories in competitions but the beers in these styles also have pretty straightforward guidelines that helps keep the judging a bit less variable.
Lastly, a word on interpreting comment sheets. One of the earlier posters said if all three judges note a particular off it's probably there. Yes and no. Look for where the comments are written on the score sheets. If the off or flaw is noted early on in the space provided, ie: in the first two lines on the Aroma, most likely the judge is picking it up during the "silent" portion of the judging. However, if it's written on like an afterthought at the end of the sections - I see this often with oxidation - it's possible one judge picked it up (or thought they picked it up) and said so to the other judges at the table who then wrote it down whether they independently picked it up on not. Sort of the power of suggestion / peer pressure type response. We try to tell judges not to write down comments that they do not independently assess, but not everyone follows that instruction.
