CO2 Problems

[Montanaandy]

I went ahead and transferred my 1st batch from secondary to the keg yesterday. Checked all of the connection points for leaks with Star San foam and did not find any (did it the same way I do when I swap out a propane cylinder on the grill). Followed the instructions provided by the good people of this board in terms of priming the tank (i.e. 10PSI, release, 10PSI release, etc.) and I even pumped some CO2 into the tank from the "out" port. I placed the cylinder and the keg into the chest freezer and set the pressure at around 12 PSI. Came back a few hours later and saw that the gas in the tank had dropped like crazy but a quick perusal of this board indicated that this was normal.

Cut to this morning. The regulator shows that the tank has "0" pressure and the gas in the CO2 tank has dropped below the 600 level to where it is just in the red (replace) zone. Just checked again and after 15 minutes the pressure is holding steady at around 11-12PSI and the gas in the tank indicator is still just at the top of the red zone.

Is it common/normal for the conry to loose pressure in a freezer and to have to hit it again and bump the pressure or is this indicative of a leak? I thought that I did a pretty thorough check of the lines/connections and did not see any indication of a visible leak. What course of action should I take at this point? Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[shortyjacobs]

My high pressure is always "in the red", even with a brand new CO2 tank, once it's cooled.

I'm confused by this:

Cut to this morning. The regulator shows that the tank has "0" pressure and the gas in the CO2 tank has dropped below the 600 level to where it is just in the red (replace) zone. Just checked again and after 15 minutes the pressure is holding steady at around 11-12PSI and the gas in the tank indicator is still just at the top of the red zone.

How does the tank have "0" pressure but the tank has dropped below "600" and is just in the red? Do you mean the corny was reading 0 pressure?

I have found that regulators behave differently as they cool...so maybe that's it? I don't know why else your reg would be reading 0...I could see that happening if you had a major leak, (and lost all your CO2), but then you wouldn't have been able to up the pressure again...

 

[Montanaandy]

Yeah, sorry - the corny tank pressure regulator was down to "0" and the gauge indicating how much was left in the CO2 tank dipped down from 600 to the top of the red "refill" zone.

I took the CO2 tank & assorted lines, connectors out and Star San tested them thoroughly again for leaks and did not see any indication of leaks so if there is a leak it apparently is coming from the corny. Prior to transferring to the keg I made certain to apply keg lube to the O ring on the lid top as well as the underside lip where the lid top is seated to assure a good seal. Also checked the O rings on the Gas In or Liquid Out posts. I also Star San tested the lid for leaks prior to placing the corny in the chest freezer and there were no leaks.

 

[Reelale]

Is it common/normal for the conry to loose pressure in a freezer and to have to hit it again and bump the pressure or is this indicative of a leak? I thought that I did a pretty thorough check of the lines/connections and did not see any indication of a visible leak. What course of action should I take at this point? Thanks, Montanaandy

I'm not sure, but I think that once C02 goes into solution, the head pressure on the corny drops a little. I've had to adjust mine a couple of times, and I have no leaks in the kegs. This is assuming you are leaving it on gas all the time.

 

[JesseRC]

Please say TANK when referring to Keg, it sounds like you are cutting the gas off from the regulator to the keg. You're suppose to leave the keg on 12 psi all the time. If you shut the tank off, or close the shut off valve or remove the quick disconnect, well then the beer is going to absorb the co2 and the pressue will drop. This will happen till the beer and head space reach equilibrium. When this happens your beer is fully carbed at 12psi.

In summary, connect everything , turn everythin on. And leave it that way at 10-12psi and in 5 days you beer should show some carbonation.

I can see how you high pressure (co2 tank) guage could be reading something while you low pressure gauge went to zero.

 

[Montanaandy]

JesseRC - Thanks for setting me straight on the terminology. I did have the tank (keg) on a constant 12 PSI and did not disconnect. I want to give the beer a week to carbonate slowly. Basically I went to bed and everything was fine and then this morning I woke to find the low pressure gauge had dropped from 12 PSI to 0 PSI. I am just trying to ascertain whether what has happened is "normal" (i.e. it is normal for the high pressure gauge to dip into the red refill zone when you place it in the freezer but I did not initially realize this until I researched it on the board). I am just trying to figure out whether I might have a leak and need to take corrective action or whether this is what is to be expected when you first place a tank in the freezer. Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[JesseRC]

Well it the low pressure gauge should not read zero. I would try upping it to 20, then back it back down to 10. You have to pull the relief valve on keg as you are adjusting it down to 10psi. Maybe once you place it in keezer it adjusted down. I'd still keep an eye on it to make sure you're not losing any gas. Good luck.

 

[pilotdane]

Your CO2 bottle will drop considerably in pressure if you put it in your keggerator. Temperature really affects CO2 which is why the cylinders are filled by weight. When filled and really cold (-50f) they may read only read 100 psi. At room temp they are 700-800 psi and if you leave it outside in the sun during the summer you can get your guage up around 2'000. So you can have pressure readings from 100 to 2'000 with same amount of gas in the cylinder.

 

[samc]

I am so confused by this thread that I can't offer much advice. Except to say that most HBT'ers set the lid using pressure of at least 20 psi, I use 30 psi and then purge twice before letting it carb up. You can usually hear the lid lock in place, always scares the crap out of me expecting it to blow up.

I don't understand the statement "Please say TANK when referring to Keg". I have never heard of a Cornelius keg or soda keg referred to as "tank". CO2 is dispensed from a gas tank and beer is carbed & dispensed from a keg.

 

[JesseRC]

I am so confused by this thread that I can't offer much advice. Except to say that most HBT'ers set the lid using pressure of at least 20 psi, I use 30 psi and then purge twice before letting it carb up. You can usually hear the lid lock in place, always scares the crap out of me expecting it to blow up.

I don't understand the statement "Please say TANK when referring to Keg". I have never heard of a Cornelius keg or soda keg referred to as "tank". CO2 is dispensed from a gas tank and beer is carbed & dispensed from a keg.

Sorry , I actually meant to say " please say KEG when referring to Corny", the OP kep saying tank but was referring to keg.

 

[khiddy]

Montanaandy, this is perfectly normal. When you first set the regulator at 12psi outside of the keezer, the valve was open to allow just enough CO2 to pass through to achieve 12psi at 50F (or whatever the ambient temperature is at your house). When you put the CO2 tank and keg inside the keezer, the ambient temperature is much lower, so it takes a higher flow of CO2 to achieve 12psi. You'll need to open the regulator a bit more until the needle reads 12psi, then leave it at that setting for a few weeks until the gas has absorbed into the beer. Don't forget that for the first 24 hours or so, the temperature of the beer is dropping down to 35 (or whatever the temp inside your keezer is), so it will be able to absorb a higher amount of CO2 as the beer cools. But if you monitor your regulator for the first three days or so and nudge up the flow so that it reads 12psi, you'll be fine.

Oh, and you can pretty much ignore the Red Zone on your CO2 tank, until it starts to get really low. It has next to no reflection of reality until it's empty.

 

[Montanaandy]

"I am so confused by this thread that I can't offer much advice."

Yeah we have become bogged down with brewing semantics on this thread. Bottom line (what I was trying unsuccessfully to convey) - the corny keg was not holding pressure according to the pressure regulator. The low pressure gauge had dropped from 12 PSI the night before to 0 PSI by morning. I took everything out and checked for leaks, didn't find any in the lines and didn't hear or see any gas escaping from the corny keg so I set everything back up in the chest freezer, set the pressure at 12 PSI and - so far so good - after several hours the 12 PSI has held and the high pressure gauge is where it should be.

Perhaps I did not initially seat the gas line in properly on the post although I did not hear gas escaping - who knows? In any event, thanks to all for all of the advice/assistance offered. If the problems reoccur I will let you know. Montanaandy

 

[Montanaandy]

Khiddy - sorry didn't see your advice before I posted. Thanks for the reassurance. Montanaandy

 

[Munsoned]

My gauge was in the red at the same exact spot for about 4 months until last night, when it finally dropped to "0."

 

[camiller]

My gauge was in the red at the same exact spot for about 4 months until last night, when it finally dropped to "0."

That is how CO2 behaves. When pressurized in a liquid form and kept at a constant temperature the pressure in the head-space of the cylinder will stay constant even as you draw out gas until all of the liquid has turned to gas.

 

[camiller]

If I may take a moment to step up on this conveniently placed soap box

Always have two CO2 tanks. I work part time in a liquor store/LHBS and not a Saturday goes by that someone doesn't walk in the store asking if we fill co2 cylinders (we don't). The only place in town that does fill them on Saturday closes at noon.

Your CO2 tank will always go empty just before the game starts on TV
Your CO2 tank will always go empty as the first hand is being dealt on poker night.
Your CO2 tank will always go empty right at the beginning of <insert event here>.

Have two tanks.

 

[Montanaandy]

Chris that is really good advice. I thought about moving up to a larger tank from the 5 but it makes more sense to have 2 x 5 in the event that one suddenly runs out. Montanaandy

 

[shortyjacobs]

If I may take a moment to step up on this conveniently placed soap box

Always have two CO2 tanks. I work part time in a liquor store/LHBS and not a Saturday goes by that someone doesn't walk in the store asking if we fill co2 cylinders (we don't). The only place in town that does fill them on Saturday closes at noon.

Your CO2 tank will always go empty just before the game starts on TV
Your CO2 tank will always go empty as the first hand is being dealt on poker night.
Your CO2 tank will always go empty right at the beginning of <insert event here>.

Have two tanks.

I got tired of swapping tanks, and just switched to natural gas....

 

[Reelale]

wtf? This is carbonating not cookin! But...if there is a way to make beer fizzy with propane, I'm all ears.

 

[DavidP]

I think municipalities should start supplying us with CO2 via hard piping.

 

[samc]

wtf? This is carbonating not cookin! But...if there is a way to make beer fizzy with propane, I'm all ears.

Yeah, you would probably sprout a few extra ears after drinking some propane pale ale!