Closed transfer equipment decisions

[Crafty_Brewer]

Hi everyone, I’ve been mulling over what direction I’d like to go with my closed transfer equipment purchases.

I have a fermonster and have read through the thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

My current process is just using the stock lid with bung and airlock, pulling the bung and using a thief for samples, and using an auto-siphon to transfer to a sanitized keg, followed by co2 purge. Cold crashing is a major O2 and starsan fest.

The thread referenced above settles in on a pair of disconnect posts, recommends using Co2 and a picnic tap to push samples out, and trickle Co2 in for cold crashing.

I have an external utility line on my keezer regulator, so I would have no problem pushing the beer to keg for closed transfer, and could do a starsan liquid/co2 purge on the keg to prep it too.

My hangup is not wanting to buy a second regulator, and keep a second tank in/near my fermentation chamber as it is not in the same room as my keezer, and I’d like to keep costs down.

I am considering going with a kit I saw on Brewhardware that has the fermonster solid lid, ball lock post for gas (not pictured below, it’s an upgrade option I’d select), and O-ring with racking cane with tubing and beer QD.

The reason I’m leaning towards this kit in particular, is that I would not need a co2 tank and regulator for my fermentation chamber.

I’d use an airlock if I’m not cold crashing, or use the cold crash guardian if I’m going to cold crash.

I would pull the airlock/guardian off and use a syringe with tubing to pull samples when necessary, and add the racking cane when it’s time to transfer.

What do you all think? Is this a viable strategy with enough O2 reduction for hoppy styles? Pics of products below:

 

[sibelman]

Many folks are happy with closed transfer driven by gravity. But that requires a spigot near the bottom of the fermenter.

Your "utility" gas line avoids the need for a second tank and regulator. You'll need to temporarily drop the pressure setting when you use that.

Gotta say, I find a second tank super useful even if there's no second regulator: I'm never stuck with no CO2. Even handier for me with a second regulator as my kegerator is some distance from my ferm. chamber fridge.

But your plan includes breaking the seal to take samples and do transfers, if I'm understanding right. That's undesirable. A bit of additional hardware might fix that?

 

[mac_1103]

Once you have a Fermonster set up for closed transfers, it's a piece of cake to use fermentation gas to purge your keg. Then you can set up a gravity closed loop transfer even if you don't have a spigot on your fermonster. You just need to hit the fermenter with a couple of PSI to start the beer flowing and then connect the gas post on the keg to the gas post on the fermenter. Just make sure that the bottom of the fermenter is above the top of the keg and don't expect the transfer to be fast. Make sure to purge the jumpers too. If you don't want to buy a second tank and regulator, you could use a cheap miniregulator and a sodastream cylinder - it's a rather expensive way to buy CO2, but you're hardly using any with this approach.

The Brewhardware racking cane setup is fine, but so is the floating dip tube approach described in the thread you linked.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

Many folks are happy with closed transfer driven by gravity. But that requires a spigot near the bottom of the fermenter.

Your "utility" gas line avoids the need for a second tank and regulator. You'll need to temporarily drop the pressure setting when you use that.

Gotta say, I find a second tank super useful even if there's no second regulator: I'm never stuck with no CO2. Even handier for me with a second regulator as my kegerator is some distance from my ferm. chamber fridge.

But your plan includes breaking the seal to take samples and do transfers, if I'm understanding right. That's undesirable. A bit of additional hardware might fix that?

Yes, that’s the plan.

I actually do have a second tank, but no second regulator. Both my tanks are 20 pounders because that’s what the welding shop has for swap, and of course like you said no one likes to be without co2.

It would be kind of a pain for a tank that big where my fermentor chamber is, but I’m still debating on it.

My debate is primarily whether I want to splash out on cash for the second regulator and go with the dual post/dip tube setup, and extra hardware for pulling samples, jumpers, and all that. It’s a little bit more than double the cost, but if it’s a significant enough difference it might be worth it. Not sure.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

Once you have a Fermonster set up for closed transfers, it's a piece of cake to use fermentation gas to purge your keg. Then you can set up a gravity closed loop transfer even if you don't have a spigot on your fermonster. You just need to hit the fermenter with a couple of PSI to start the beer flowing and then connect the gas post on the keg to the gas post on the fermenter. Just make sure that the bottom of the fermenter is above the top of the keg and don't expect the transfer to be fast. Make sure to purge the jumpers too. If you don't want to buy a second tank and regulator, you could use a cheap miniregulator and a sodastream cylinder - it's a rather expensive way to buy CO2, but you're hardly using any with this approach.

The Brewhardware racking cane setup is fine, but so is the floating dip tube approach described in the thread you linked.

Yea, I was looking at the mini regulators, but they are about the same cost as a regulator regulator.

I think what would be the deciding factor for me while I’m thinking it over is if popping the airlock off to pull a sample with some tubing and a syringe is enough O2 ingress to make a difference in the end or not.

 

[user 348755]

Hi everyone, I’ve been mulling over what direction I’d like to go with my closed transfer equipment purchases.

I have a fermonster and have read through the thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

My current process is just using the stock lid with bung and airlock, pulling the bung and using a thief for samples, and using an auto-siphon to transfer to a sanitized keg, followed by co2 purge. Cold crashing is a major O2 and starsan fest.

The thread referenced above settles in on a pair of disconnect posts, recommends using Co2 and a picnic tap to push samples out, and trickle Co2 in for cold crashing.

I have an external utility line on my keezer regulator, so I would have no problem pushing the beer to keg for closed transfer, and could do a starsan liquid/co2 purge on the keg to prep it too.

My hangup is not wanting to buy a second regulator, and keep a second tank in/near my fermentation chamber as it is not in the same room as my keezer, and I’d like to keep costs down.

I am considering going with a kit I saw on Brewhardware that has the fermonster solid lid, ball lock post for gas (not pictured below, it’s an upgrade option I’d select), and O-ring with racking cane with tubing and beer QD.

The reason I’m leaning towards this kit in particular, is that I would not need a co2 tank and regulator for my fermentation chamber.

I’d use an airlock if I’m not cold crashing, or use the cold crash guardian if I’m going to cold crash.

I would pull the airlock/guardian off and use a syringe with tubing to pull samples when necessary, and add the racking cane when it’s time to transfer.

What do you all think? Is this a viable strategy with enough O2 reduction for hoppy styles? Pics of products below:

View attachment 880851

View attachment 880852

I tried the grommet and cane route first and ended up using a closed lid with the bulkhead QDs. Got tired of all the CO2 leakage when transferring from the fermonster. With the solid lid and QDs, the system doesn't have to be under pressure all the time. You can charge it to 1-2 psi and leave for the cold crash and and just add shots of co2 to keep it balanced. The worse that can happen is the sides of the FV will collapse slightly by an inch at most and you just renflate it when you notice. It's the best and cheapest solution. I use a 30$ mini co2 and 16g cartridges when I don't want to use my main system. It works well. I would suggest you don't mess with the ranking cane.

 

[user 348755]

Yes, that’s the plan.

I actually do have a second tank, but no second regulator. Both my tanks are 20 pounders because that’s what the welding shop has for swap, and of course like you said no one likes to be without co2.

It would be kind of a pain for a tank that big where my fermentor chamber is, but I’m still debating on it.

My debate is primarily whether I want to splash out on cash for the second regulator and go with the dual post/dip tube setup, and extra hardware for pulling samples, jumpers, and all that. It’s a little bit more than double the cost, but if it’s a significant enough difference it might be worth it. Not sure.

I forgot to mention, I used a flotit 2.0 that in the lid all through fermentation and that allows me to pull samples with introducing oxygen and I also push finning through the gas post agter chilling.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

I tried the grommet and cane route first and ended up using a closed lid with the bulkhead QDs. Got tired of all the CO2 leakage when transferring from the fermonster. With the solid lid and QDs, the system doesn't have to be under pressure all the time. You can charge it to 1-2 psi and leave for the cold crash and and just add shots of co2 to keep it balanced. The worse that can happen is the sides of the FV will collapse slightly by an inch at most and you just renflate it when you notice. It's the best and cheapest solution. I use a 30$ mini co2 and 16g cartridges when I don't want to use my main system. It works well. I would suggest you don't mess with the ranking cane.

Hmm, I might just have to drop the cash on the dual post/diptube/extra regulator route.

 

[user 348755]

Hmm, I might just have to drop the cash on the dual post/diptube/extra regulator route.

I can't overstate how much of a pain messing with that cane was. Just trying to get it down to the right level while trying to maintain a seal around the cane, stirring up trub and always having to let in air for every operation such as sampling. I'm not the type to throw parts at a problem or use all the latest gimmicks but this was by far my best investment. Two posts and a floating dip tube. You don't need another regulator if you can easily disconnect your tank to charge the fermenter every 24 hours or so. I usually only have to do it twice. The suckback issue is not a problem with the flexibility of the fermonster. I hope it works and let us know what solution you found if you get around to it. Good luck

 

[sibelman]

enough O2 ingress to make a difference in the end or not.

Some beers are super sensitive to oxygen, esp. if not consumed quickly. Injecting ascorbic acid can mitigate ingress of a small amount, but the ideal is no opening at all, purging even the transfer tubing, etc. Damn, I sound like a LODO absolutist. Cold side, I try to avoid any oxygen.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

I can't overstate how much of a pain messing with that cane was. Just trying to get it down to the right level while trying to maintain a seal around the cane, stirring up trub and always having to let in air for every operation such as sampling. I'm not the type to throw parts at a problem or use all the latest gimmicks but this was by far my best investment. Two posts and a floating dip tube. You don't need another regulator if you can easily disconnect your tank to charge the fermenter every 24 hours or so. I usually only have to do it twice. The suckback issue is not a problem with the flexibility of the fermonster. I hope it works and let us know what solution you found if you get around to it. Good luck

In that case I might as well drop the extra cash on the full setup.

The parts I’m planning on are:

the transfer kit from Brewhardware - they have an option for 2 ball lock posts with floating dip tube,

the cold crash guardian,

gas QD to blowoff tube when not using the cold crash guardian,

beer QD to beer QD jumper for transfer,

beer QD to picnic tap for samples,

and a regulator just for pushing said samples.

Dry hopping in a bag via magnets.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

Some beers are super sensitive to oxygen, esp. if not consumed quickly. Injecting ascorbic acid can mitigate ingress of a small amount, but the ideal is no opening at all, purging even the transfer tubing, etc. Damn, I sound like a LODO absolutist. Cold side, I try to avoid any oxygen.

Yea, LODO seems like quite the rabbit hole. I’ll probably just go for the full dual post and dip tube setup. At some point I’ll have to get around to brewing a NEIPA or something to make good use of it.

 

[mac_1103]

I actually do have a second tank, but no second regulator.

Keep your eyes peeled for used ones on Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc.

I was looking at the mini regulators, but they are about the same cost as a regulator regulator.

I think you were either looking at really overpriced mini regulators or really cheap full-size ones. $23. Not the highest quality product around, but more than adequate to put a quick shot of gas on a fermenter to start a transfer.

the deciding factor for me while I’m thinking it over is if popping the airlock off to pull a sample with some tubing and a syringe is enough O2 ingress to make a difference in the end or not.

Why defeat the purpose of purging kegs and doing closed transfers by letting any oxygen in?

 

[Broken Crow]

As far as saving CO2 goes: Just do the full mod on your Fermonster with the floating diptube and use a racking pump:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/supersucker.htm

..It works quite well with a gas-return line back to the Fermonster for a total closed-loop transfer.
As to this;

My hangup is not wanting to buy a second regulator, and keep a second tank in/near my fermentation chamber as it is not in the same room as my keezer, and I’d like to keep costs down.

Would you drive your car without a spare tire? There is a non-zero chance you'll get a flat at some point while driving, but with a CO2 regulator there is a greater likelihood that at some point you'll have the diaphram or internal o-rings crap out and need replacing. Though only my own opinion, I don't consider a second regulator to be 'optional', rather: mandatory or at least 'sensible. I respect keeping costs down, but not to the point of risking loss or possible damage to a batch of beer or simply having to wait to replace a failed part and ruin a days work.
Just my 2-cents.

 

[bwible]

I have a couple 5 gallon speidel fermenters I started fermenting 3 gallon batches in. What people are doing with those is buying a second valve and ring and putting it on the top so it can be closed off. Check this guy:

 

[mac_1103]

Would you drive your car without a spare tire?

Unfortunately, cars without spare tires are becoming increasingly common.

 

[Broken Crow]

Unfortunately, cars without spare tires are becoming increasingly common.

So too, many other aspects of life lack sensible choices and have become common... I like to think that this forum exists for those who choose to make the most sensible choices such as having predictable failure-mitigation measures in place.

 

[user 348755]

In that case I might as well drop the extra cash on the full setup.

The parts I’m planning on are:

the transfer kit from Brewhardware - they have an option for 2 ball lock posts with floating dip tube,

the cold crash guardian,

gas QD to blowoff tube when not using the cold crash guardian,

beer QD to beer QD jumper for transfer,

beer QD to picnic tap for samples,

and a regulator just for pushing said samples.

Dry hopping in a bag via

In that case I might as well drop the extra cash on the full setup.

The parts I’m planning on are:

the transfer kit from Brewhardware - they have an option for 2 ball lock posts with floating dip tube,

the cold crash guardian,

gas QD to blowoff tube when not using the cold crash guardian,

beer QD to beer QD jumper for transfer,

beer QD to picnic tap for samples,

and a regulator just for pushing said samples.

Dry hopping in a bag via magnets.

I can't tell you how to do things, but I can tell you it's not that complicated. Get the QD bulkhead fittings and the dip tube and for the rest, you don't need anything but two QD female and some tubing. You can use the fittings to draw a sample and use the same fittings and some tubing to transfer. You don't need a kit to cold crash. Just pressurize the ferm before you cold crash and halfway through and you don't need to worry about a cold crash kitnor trickling co2. Try it before you buy anything else.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

I wanted to update this thread with where I ended up. I picked up a kit for the lid from Brewhardware that has 2 posts for gas & beer with a floating dip tube, as well as a jumper line. I used to today and it worked great.

I’m going to pick up a second regulator probably in the next month or so and the bits and pieces for a gas post blowoff and picnic tap/beer disconnect for taking samples.

Today I just swapped my lid with the airlock on a beer ready to keg with my closed transfer lid and did the transfer.

Opening the lid for samples and swapping the lid is going to introduce some O2, but certainly reduces the O2 exposure compared to not doing a closed transfer at all.

So that’s my approach anyways is continuous process improvement as finances and time allow.