Clone SN Tumbler...Help!

[bh10]

what smoked malt did you use? i used Weyerman and it was subtle. i know there are a few brands at my LHBS and they range from mild (Weyerman) to extreme (cherry smoked).

I used weyerman also.

 

[ghpeel]

I went with 1# of the Weyerman based on my LHBS's advice that it would be very mild in this beer. I pitched last night after it sat in my no-chill for a couple of days. The hydro sample didn't taste particularly smokey, just a weird tangerine, sweet flavor. But then again, I never like the taste of unfermented wort, so I'm not worried. Can't wait for this to be done!

 

[bh10]

I kegged this, this weekend and man its smokey, I let it sit in the primary for a month and its way to smokey, Im going to let it sit for a while hopefully by christmas itll be good to go.

 

[ghpeel]

The amount of variability in the intensity of the smoked malt is interesting to me! I guess it's hard for the maltsters to get consistency across lots of batches.

Also, I wonder if the age of the smoked malt when you use it affects the smoke flavor. It seems likely that the older the malt gets, the more smoke flavor it would loose.

 

[ghpeel]

Pulled a hydro sample last night. Beer is at 1.020. I accidentally let it get down to 62F, hope I didn't stall the yeast. It's back up to 67F now.

Anyway, the sample I pulled did not taste smokey at all. The primary flavors were nice coffee notes from the pale chocolate, as well as the distinctive caramel flavor of British Medium Crystal. In fact, I sort of regret using that malt instead of the Crystal 20 now. It'll be good beer, but it won't be a Tumbler clone.

Just like Tumbler though, the sample had a complexity that I couldn't put my finger on. Definitely the smoked malt adds a hint of flavor that's hard to pick out.

I'll definitely be experimenting with 1-2lbs of Weyerman smoked malt in other beers, just to see what happens. Maybe a touch in an Alt Beer would be nice.

 

[beerandcoding]

The amount of variability in the intensity of the smoked malt is interesting to me! I guess it's hard for the maltsters to get consistency across lots of batches.

Also, I wonder if the age of the smoked malt when you use it affects the smoke flavor. It seems likely that the older the malt gets, the more smoke flavor it would loose.

I think this is exactly the case. I brewed 2 gallon batch of a smoked wheat ale a while back that used 1 lb of Weyermann Rauchmalt. The malt had been sitting on the shelf at the LHBS for god knows how long in a premeasured bag. The beer was less smokey than a 5 gallon batch I've brewed using the same amount of smoked malt that had been stored airtight and dark.

Cheers!
Kevin

 

[ghpeel]

Yeah, I used the pre-measured 1 lb bag that looks like it was packaged by weyerman themselves. So you should ask your lhbs how often they turn over their smoked malt. If it doesn't move too fast, you might need to up the amounts.

 

[CScruggs]

any update on this, anyone actually complete a batch and have it ready to drink. I would love to find a good recipe for this. One of my favorite beers by far.

 

[ghpeel]

Not carbed yet, but I'm cold crashing mine. The hydro sample I drank 2 days ago tasted exactly like I remember Tumbler tasting at the bar. Brown ale roast on top of an ESB base is how it strikes me. Gimme a week and hopefully I'll have it crashed, kegged, carbed and compared to a real Tumbler.

Weird thing is that my version finished kinda high: 1.018-1.019. The sample tastes right on and it doesn't seem overly sweet, so I'm going to keg it.

 

[Johnny9]

I brewed this last week:

12 gallon batch:

21.3# Hugh Baird
1.0# Smoked Malt
2.5# Crystal 10L
1.7# Choc. Malt 200L

Don't know what happened, but somehow got home from the brew store with Pale Choc Malt??? My SRM looked more like 15 going into the kettle. oh well, it will still be beer and I bet I'll drink it:rockin:

Challenger/Goldings additions as previously described in this thread.

OG=1.056. Pitched WLP-001 and is currently fermenting at 68F.

I always let my ales go 30 days, so I should be kegging around 12/7. Standby.


JR

 

[Germelli1]

I actually used the second runnings from my stout with this hop bill. I didn't have any smoked malt to add but should be a tasty brown ale!

 

[CScruggs]

Not carbed yet, but I'm cold crashing mine. The hydro sample I drank 2 days ago tasted exactly like I remember Tumbler tasting at the bar. Brown ale roast on top of an ESB base is how it strikes me. Gimme a week and hopefully I'll have it crashed, kegged, carbed and compared to a real Tumbler.

Weird thing is that my version finished kinda high: 1.018-1.019. The sample tastes right on and it doesn't seem overly sweet, so I'm going to keg it.

Waiting in suspense, for results and a recipe.

 

[ghpeel]

Here's recipe, slightly tweaked from what I had posted earlier in thread:

5.25 gallons
8.5 lbs Pale Malt (Weyermans)
1.0 lbs Smoked malt (Weyermans, very important!)
1.0 lbs British Crystal 50-60L
6.0 oz Pale Chocolate Malt - cold steeped day before
1.5oz Challenger @ 60
1.0oz Challenger @ 10
1.0oz EKG @ 10
Fermentis S-04
Mash at 155F, ferment at 65F.

I screwed up my mash temps, started at 160F by accident for a few minutes. That might account for my higher final gravity (1.018-1.019).

Pale Chocolate was cold steeped in about a quart or so of RO water. Drained that through a strainer and added liquid to the boil.

I did the beer as a No Chill. I left out the 10 minute hops until I was ready to pitch yeast. I steeped the hops for 10 minutes in some nearly boiling wort that I threw into a pot after I moved the beer from the No Chill cube into the fermenter. Curious to see how the hop aroma/flavor come through in the final product. I'll report back by next week, hopefully.

 

[flipper51]

I want to thank everyone who's posted in this thread, as this was a beer I really wanted to try. I had to do some things differently with the ingredients I had (and no LHBS). Brewed yesterday, I'll let you know how it is when I know:

10 gal, expected 70% efficiency and OG of 1.058

19 lb + 1 oz Canadian pale
1 lb crystal 40
1 lb crystal 75
1 lb chocolate
3 oz peated (Simpsons)
mashed 3lb:1gal @ 156 for 95 minutes (batch sparge)

1.25 oz Magnum (12.5%) boiled ~90 min
2 oz Willamette (4.8%) at 15 minutes
2 oz Willamette at 9 minutes
Gives about 38 IBUs
Split into 2 carboys, one with Notty, the other S-05.

My efficiency was just about dead-on but over-boiled to what looks like 9 gallons at 1.063. I think I'll dilute it at bottling since I'm trying to approximate Tumbler.

I'm not too worried about the Willamettes -- it'll be different from Challenger/EKG, but Willamette fits the style well. The peated malt? Well, that might be risky, but it didn't seem too strong during the mash. I can name it Bog Tumbler if I have to.

 

[ghpeel]

Update time:

Comments on this beer include: "really good", "tastes just like a Tumbler" and "awesome."

I dont have a Tumbler beside me to compare too, but it seems to be really close to how I remember the Tumbler tasting. The beer is a nice, complex brown ale with a roasty character from the Pale Chocolate.

And don't let the smoked malt scare you off. NO ONE has drank any and picked it out. Everyone is surprised when I say it's in there, but after you realize that, you can kind of make it out in the background. I think it adds a nice complexity to the beer.

 

[Johnny9]

I kegged my attempt yesterday (receipe below):

It needs to carbonate still, so too early to compare. Color is definitely off as its much lighter than Tumbler. It tasted amazing though. May have under done the smoke, really can't detect it at all (yet).

I am heading out of town on business, it should be carbed when I return later this week. standby.

Johnny

I brewed this last week:

12 gallon batch:

21.3# Hugh Baird
1.0# Smoked Malt
2.5# Crystal 10L
1.7# Choc. Malt 200L

Don't know what happened, but somehow got home from the brew store with Pale Choc Malt??? My SRM looked more like 15 going into the kettle. oh well, it will still be beer and I bet I'll drink it:rockin:

Challenger/Goldings additions as previously described in this thread.

OG=1.056. Pitched WLP-001 and is currently fermenting at 68F.

I always let my ales go 30 days, so I should be kegging around 12/7. Standby.


JR

 

[dwarven_stout]

I've brewed this twice now, and it's quite close. It's not a true "clone" because I didn't use correct hops. I didn't have Challenger or Yakima Goldings, but Pearle and Northern Brewer are closeish to Challenger so I subbed in a mix of the two as finishing hops. Goldings I replaced with Willamette.

The first brew I toasted a pound of crushed malt for 20m at 350- that beer was very good, but it was more roasty and smoky than Tumbler. The second time I didn't toast, and it came out just about right but still slightly more smoky. Color is quite close, bitterness is right, and the hop profile is slightly overstated (but imho even better!), a little less spicy and a little more herbal. I'll post a picture next time I open one.


Here's what I did:

5.5 gallon batch

Grain:
8.00 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (78.05%)
1.00 lb Caramel-40 (9.76 %)
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (7.32 %)
0.50 lb Weyerman Smoked Malt (4.88 %)

Mash in: 14.00 qt of water at 165 F to hit 154 F for 60 minutes
Sparge: 17.00 qt of water at 185 F to hit 170 F for 10 minutes

Run off 6.5 gallons at 1.043
60 minute boil to get 5.5 gallons at 1.052

Hops:
60 minutes: 0.50 oz Northern Brewer [12.50 %] (20.6 IBU)
10 minutes: 1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (6.6 IBU)
0.50 oz Pearle [8.40 %] (5.0 IBU)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [12.50 %] (7.5 IBU)

Danstar Nottingham

 

[ghpeel]

Took my keg to another party last night and folks went nuts over it. This is a seriously good beer, i just cant seem to find any real Tumbler to compare it to. If you like browns, porters, or brown porters, this beer is for you. I'm calling it a Brown Porter if anyone asks for the style.

FYI - I cold steeped the Pale Chocolate and threw the liquid into the No Chill tank when I transfered from the kettle. Since it was never boiled, I think it gives a smoother roast character.

Also, the lacing on this beer is fantastic. Sticky white bands all down your glass as you are drinking.

 

[MgMt_Home_Brew]

My batch is pretty tasty as well. I think it could use a few more IBUs to match up with the tumbler but it's still delicious.

 

[ghpeel]

Finally found some real Tumbler in bottles to compare mine too, but I do think Tumbler fresh on draft is better than in the bottles...

SN Tumbler: less toasty, more hoppy than mine. Color was identical, but there's was a bit clearer. Theirs tastes slightly sweeter, which surprised me because I used what I would assume would be a slightly less attentive yeast (s-04). The beers were very similar, but mine wasn't quite a clone. Mine was more of a brown or brown porter while the real Tumbler strikes me as a brown/esb hybrid.

And it might be ugly baby syndrome, but I prefer mine

 

[Johnny9]

Finally my results: I can't say its a clone because I definitely missed the color. Next time I will use Cry 30-40L (instead of 10L). Kinda of a pale brown. But damn it is good and taste pretty spot on to my lips. I agree with ghpeel, I think SN's has a bit more hop flavor.

But without a doubt, the best Brown I have ever brewed! Everyone who has tried it loves it!

Carry on folks!

I kegged my attempt yesterday (receipe below):

It needs to carbonate still, so too early to compare. Color is definitely off as its much lighter than Tumbler. It tasted amazing though. May have under done the smoke, really can't detect it at all (yet).

I am heading out of town on business, it should be carbed when I return later this week. standby.

Johnny

 

[ghpeel]

Finally my results: I can't say its a clone because I definitely missed the color. Next time I will use Cry 30-40L (instead of 10L).

Indeed. The crystal 10 seemed weird to me when I read it in the original recipe, so I subbed British Medium Crystal (50-60). I think a big influence on color is the darkness of the chocolate malt as well. I used Pale Chocolate, but a darker crystal, and mine came out identical in color (if not in clarity) to the bottle of real Tumbler.

This beer has made me like brown ales again. It's really, REALLY good.

 

[flipper51]

Update on my version (recipe on last page):

I hung onto a 12 pack of the real thing to do some taste-testing and I think it's really close -- really surprisingly close. This is the Notty version, in bottles 14 days at last tasting, so it's very early.

I added about 1/2 gal at bottling which should drop the OG to around 1.057. FG was low at 1.014 with the bottling sugar mixed in.

I think the hop flavor is right on, but I'm terrible at differentiating hop flavors, so take that fwiw. There's so much else going on in this beer that I'd never be able to tell one mild variety from another.

Everything else (except the smoke, see below) -- malt/bitter balance, color, roast level -- is very close, even at just two weeks. It cleaned up quite fast. If that has anything to do with the recipe and not just yeast luck, this could be a good rapid turn around recipe.

Right now, the smoke is stronger in mine (but just barely, and if it mellows with time at all it will be right on) and maybe a little different in kind. Even in very small quantities the peated malt couldn't shake its aggressive, slightly nasty smoke flavor. It's very slight -- just a tough o' nasty -- and while it might be the reason this beer is so damn good, I'm guessing it would have been better with much more regular smoke.

 

[flipper51]

Update on my attempt at this: After the proper passage of time, this has been a real winner -- both really broad appeal at parties and one of my favorites. That potency of the peated malt did fade a lot, which is on balance a good thing, since it was kind of unpleasant. Still wouldn't use it again, though; the beer is great now but doesn't really have the smoke of the real thing.

 

[user 70770]

I just tried to brew a tumbler clone. This is the recipe I used.

5.5 gallon recipe

10lbs Domestic 2-row
0.75lbs crystal 80L
0.50lbs Chocolate malt (350L)
0.50lbs Smoked malt

After trying it, it's definitely got too much chocolate character. My guess is that they either used pale chocolate or used less of regular chocolate. Unfortunately, my LHBS doesn't have pale chocolate malt. The smoke character is pretty nice with 0.5lbs so I'm sticking with it. It's subtle but I remember Tumble being very light on smoke as well. I'm thinking my next tweak for this recipe will be as follows.

10 lbs Domestic 2-row
1.00 lbs crystal 80L
0.25 lbs Chocolate malt (350L)
0.50 lbs Smoked malt

I've never used pale chocolate so I don't know how different it would be to used 0.5 lbs of it versus 0.25 lbs of regular chocolate. Does anybody have any information which type of chocolate malt SN uses?

 

[Paulgs3]

Its that time of year!!

I have to brew this, any updated recipes?

I'm not a fan of the goldings/kent goldings... I don't taste it in there, leaning towards the williamette.

 

[Germelli1]

Its that time of year!!

I have to brew this, any updated recipes?

I'm not a fan of the goldings/kent goldings... I don't taste it in there, leaning towards the williamette.

I actually never got around to brewing an attempt at a clone, but I did brew a brown ale loosely based on my taste for tumbler. I used:

10 Marris Otter
.25 chocolate
.25 roast barley
.5 crystal 80 (might have been 120 but I think 80)
.5 Carapils

All Willamette hops, pacman yeast at 64

Not a clone, but it was a great brown ale and I felt with a little smokiness it would have come close. I would try this again going for a tumbler clone, but my LHBS doesn't have any smoked malt

And I LOVED the all Willamette hop schedule...so much I used it yesterday on a stout I have been dreaming up!

 

[Paulgs3]

I'd prefer a willamette over a goldings personally, what was your schedule?

I found these at rebel:

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Best-Malz-Smoked-Malt-(by-the-pound).html and http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Peat-Smoked-Malt-(by-the-pound).html

But I'm leaning towards using this: http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Briess-Smoked-Malt-(Cherry-Wood)-(by-the-pound).html

Edit: how do I find the SG potential of these smoked grains?

 

[dwarven_stout]

Smoked malt potential is roughly similar to 2-row. It's just smoked pale malt, after all.

DO NOT use peated malt unless you know what you're doing. 4oz in this beer will make it taste like ash-coated ham. Cherrywood malt is pretty potent too, but you'll be fine as long as you keep the quantities low.

 

[ghpeel]

To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

I avoided brown ales for a while after burning out on them. After making the Tumbler clone last fall (recipe in this thread), I've made 2 more and can't wait to make my next one. This beer kicked my enjoyment of browns back up. My last brown used CaraBrown malt and it was delicious, I highly recommend that stuff.