clone beers

[Brewpastor]

I find it interesting how many requests there are for clone recipes. I understand the reason, and support this as a way of focusing brewing. It does seem that this is our descriptive vocabulary, "it tastes a bit like..."

What I would find useful is if people would discribe what/why they like this beer. Things like, "I want to make an IPA that has the spicy hop character of..." or "I love the rich caramel flavors of..." That way if I have not had the particular beer, I can still offer some input toward the flavor goals.

Just a thought.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Sounds good.

I like brewing German HWs because I like their flavor and can't buy them where I live.

 

[El Pistolero]

What I would find useful is if people would discribe what/why they like this beer. Things like, "I want to make an IPA that has the spicy hop character of..." or "I love the rich caramel flavors of..."

I think that early in peoples brewing careers they don't really have the experience, or palate, or even vocabulary to give you that kind of info. I know it's that way with me...I can tell you what I like or don't like, but at this point I really don't have the knowledge to tell you why. That's why I like to brew from clone recipes...because I know I can shoot for something that I like. I figure later on down the line I'll figure out why it is that I like or don't like something, but by then, I probably won't be brewing clones anymore. Catch-22.

 

[Cheesefood]

In order to fully describe the taste of beer, you need to be well enough acquainted with other beers to fully appreciate the flavors. The "beer taste" that each beer has is the unique flavor it gets from the yeast, water and other ingredients. Just as no too yeasts taste the same, different also are hops and malts. Therefore, it is very likely that the only way to describe a flavor is by comparing it to another beer.

 

[Dude]

and btw if i see another snpa clone recipe im going to shoot myself!

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone
A clone of the famous beer of the Pacific Northwest.
Extract recipe

Ingredients:

• 6.6 lb Light Malt Extract (2 cans)
• 1.0 lb Crystal Malt (40-60L)
• 1.0 oz Perle Hops (60 min boil)
• 1.0oz Cascade Hops (15 min)
• 1.25oz Cascade Hops (5 min)
• 1.0 oz Cascade Hops (Secondary fermenter dry hop)
• Wyeast American Ale Yeast 1056

 

[Brewpastor]

I absolutely understand the catch 22.

Maybe part of the answer lays with us who are offering help. Perhaps part of our role is to help discribe the beer in the recipes offered. For example, one might talk about the yeast character of SNPA as coming from its particular yeast, the spicy hops coming from this variety. That way a wider vocabulary can be developed for discussing and drawing up recipes. It is probably pie-in-the-sky, but still I want to be as helpful as I can.

The other reality is I simply can't advice Joe Brewer who seeks to clone "Pub-around-the-corner pale ale".

 

[Alembic]

Dude,

Thanks for the recipe! Once again, after I read your post I can't stop laughing.

Not to detract from what the Brewpastor is saying .... I think he is making a very good point by trying to emphasize the importance of understanding WHY a beer tastes the way it does. If you can understand the why you can ultimately deconstruct any recipe and tinker with it to achieve a product to your liking. And just as importantly with a lot more confidence.

Cheers to you Brewpastor.

 

[Tony]

...Not to detract from what the Brewpastor is saying .... I think he is making a very good point by trying to emphasize the importance of understanding WHY a beer tastes the way it does. If you can understand the why you can ultimately deconstruct any recipe and tinker with it to achieve a product to your liking. And just as importantly with a lot more confidence...

Well said by both Alembic and Brewpastor! Recipe formulation is something that everyone brewing needs to learn how to do. At some point, clones will get old, and you will be wanting a house beer of your creation on tap or fermenting at all times. And to me, once you start moving towards modifying clones, and making your own individual recipes, you wont believe how much unique beer you will be brewing.

Im on a IPA recipe kick right now, and have many that Im creating, learning from, and having a good time with them. Using different grains and hops to try and make a good IPA but add individuality to it. I do not want someone saying "Hey..this tastes like..." I would rather hear "Hey, this is really good! What is it?" I have a few good ones like that, and am proud as hell of them.

I still brew a clone of Hop Rod Rye, as to me, its one of the best beers ever made. And the clone is dead on. But, I modified it to a hoppy rye stout, and will be brewing that soon.

 

[Dude]

I still brew a clone of Hop Rod Rye, as to me, its one of the best beers ever made. And the clone is dead on. But, I modified it to a hoppy rye stout, and will be brewing that soon.

Uh, excuse me, have you posted those? Get on it buddy. I'd hate to see you get banned.

Back on topic, I like making clones. It gauges how my process works. I know going in exactly what I want the beer to taste like. If I can brew a beer close to what I was shooting for, game, set, match. However, if I miss the mark, I try to troubleshoot what is different about the clone. IMHO you need a benchmark for comparison.

SIDENOTE: In my secret moderator view I can see Bjorn posted and deleted it...I hope he didn't off himself after he saw my SNPA clone.

 

[El Pistolero]

SIDENOTE: In my secret moderator view I can see Bjorn posted and deleted it...I hope he didn't off himself after he saw my SNPA clone.

I've noticed Bjorn does that a lot...tho he didn't do it quite as much when he was just Lendl. I think he's trying to mess with us.

 

[Kaiser]

Brewpastor,

I hear you. But it takes quite some experience to taste a beer and identify why it actually tastes good. I for myself am not quite there but I think I'm getting close.

As the others already pointed out, clone recipes will get you into a direction that you might like. So far I have done 2 clone brews SNPA and HB Berchtesgadener Hell. But I'm not satisfied with either of them. The SNPA was pretty much the recipe posted above. Only Perle for bittering and dry hopped. But that was wrong. In my version, the bitterness is way to harsh and dry hopping is not even used for the original SNPA. After having some SNPAs lately I found that it has more hop taste than aroma and this hop taste is completely missing in mine.

For the HB I used the wrong malt extract and it's FG went far to low. I tried to fix this with Malto Dextrin, but this left a slight after taste. Long lagering fixed most of this and I still like the beer but don't think that is anywhere near the original.

Since I went AG, I went away from the clone brews. I only use these recipes to get an idea of some key parameters (SG, FG, IBUs, hops) to create recipes that I hope I will like. And I try to keep these recipes simple for now just so I can get an idea what the particular style is actually about. Later when I learn about the affects of particiular special malts and/or hops I may modify the recipes.

Kai

 

[Brewpastor]

I appreciate the aid the whole clone movement is to this great passion of brewing. But more so I think it is simply amazing what the internet, and the huge exchange of recipes and knowledge has done for homebrewers. Through passing along recipes that target specific beers brewers can quickly get to the place where they are cranking out quality products. I think that is really cool.

When I first got going the closest thing I had to this was Dave Lines old book "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" but those recipes really didn't cut it. Too much corn sugar for one. So I came into this game from the other side, where I systematically played with ingredients to see what they would do in a given recipe, much as Kai discribes. The result has been that I can pretty well "taste" a brew mentally. The frustration was brewing in a vacume, with little outside help, except for books and the odd brewer who would cross my path. It was out of this frustration that I helped start a couple clubs - so we could pool knowledge and experience. I thought that was great, but that is nothing compared to the cyber community.

A huge chapter in my brewing was my "brewing to style" era, when I really tried to understand what made one beer unique or differnet from another. In many ways this is about the same as Clone Brewing.

****, I sound like my grandad, "Back in the day..." and he has been dead for 30 years!

 

[Brewsmith]

I have to say that in my not-so-experienced brewing career that looking at clone recipes has really helped me figure out what ingredients make a certain style. I've only made two real "clone" brews so far, but I have used clone recipes to help me formulate my own recipes. An invaluable tool, I think.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Sorry if this has been said already, but I think many people (myself included) use clones as a type of benchmark of our ability to brew and hone in a recipe. If a recipe is widely regarded as a good clone, we can brew it and see how close we get, maybe needing to tweak a bit for our setup. It's a bit of a contest with yourself, I guess. Beer solitaire. Sometimes it's fun to try to clone without a recipe...make it yourself.

But I certainly take the point that we should be able to say, "I want a beer that has a hop profile of [fill in the blank], and a [fill in the blank] maltiness, etc." and then work up a recipe towards a beer that's only in our head at that point, or perhaps based on nothing stronger than a style guideline.

 

[budbo]

I absolutely understand the catch 22.

Maybe part of the answer lays with us who are offering help. Perhaps part of our role is to help discribe the beer in the recipes offered. For example, one might talk about the yeast character of SNPA as coming from its particular yeast, the spicy hops coming from this variety. That way a wider vocabulary can be developed for discussing and drawing up recipes. It is probably pie-in-the-sky, but still I want to be as helpful as I can.

The other reality is I simply can't advice Joe Brewer who seeks to clone "Pub-around-the-corner pale ale".

When my LBHS owner told me Cascade is "floral, citrusy" I was like umm OK.. My Blank stare prompted "Sierra Nevada uses a lot of Cascade and proprietary yeast for their signature taste" I like SA Boston Ale "That is Hallertauer" I asked him about a GB clone recipie I have.. He told me it is Brewed in the German purist style with a proprietary yeast they protect.. "you will never get it perfect but this combination will get you similar" The reference points are how I learn the flavors