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Church opposition helps shoot down nano-brewery on adjacent land

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Idiotic, and stupid. I guess Baptists aren't taught Christian History and don't realize that many Christian Religuous Sects, brew beer and make wine....

Oh and there's also that whole Jesus turning water into wine thing. :rolleyes:

Reminds me of an old joke.

There are three truths in life:
Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader
of the Christian faith.
Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store. ;)
 
lame. They voiced a complaint about 'seeing' the brewery from the Church. But hey, it's his property, permit or not. If I were him I'd start leaving kegs/bottles near the property line.

Maybe even some cool labels that read "Holy Ale" and "Jesus' favorite brown ale"
 
But what would they really "see?" It's gonna be a shed.


that's the point ultimately.

I'd put a little folding table outside though, and put some beer on that.

Have a "lemonade" stand on Sunday mornings.
 
It looks to me that the shed is already built and he was hoping to continue doing what he's been doing but just greater production. So it doesn't seem that there would be anything new to see except maybe some empty kegs and a distributor truck every now and then, and that would be on weekdays. I hope the guy finds a spot to open his brewery.
 
that's the point ultimately.

I'd put a little folding table outside though, and put some beer on that.

Have a "lemonade" stand on Sunday mornings.

Or maybe a big sign that says "Jesus turned the water into wine."
 
Or maybe a big sign that says "Jesus turned the water into wine."

Najh, have a big bilboard above the shed with one of these on there.

jesus_beer.jpg


Jesus_Beer_closeup_sm.jpg


Or this statue.

buddy-beer-jesus.jpg
 
hogwash said:
It looks to me that the shed is already built and he was hoping to continue doing what he's been doing but just greater production. So it doesn't seem that there would be anything new to see except maybe some empty kegs and a distributor truck every now and then, and that would be on weekdays. I hope the guy finds a spot to open his brewery.

Meh, I wouldn't want to be next to those nut jobs anyway. You can't change their mind or reason with people like that.
 
Just had a similar thing happen around here where a small brewery/tap house wanted to open near a church. There was actually an ordinance in place (for a LONG time I'm guessing) that banned places that served alcohol from being less than 300 feet from religious institutions. The city council recently changed the ordinance to allow it.

Here's the article about the brewery/tap house

And here's the article about the ordinance being changed by the city council
 
Just had a similar thing happen around here where a small brewery/tap house wanted to open near a church. There was actually an ordinance in place (for a LONG time I'm guessing) that banned places that served alcohol from being less than 300 feet from religious institutions. The city council recently changed the ordinance to allow it.

When I was living in Nashville in the mid 90's they had a similar ordinance (100 ft). They built a new coliseum downtown for the basketball (NBA) team, Hockey, concerts, etc. Well a couple of months before opening, someone at the church nearby took out a measuring tape and realized they were 85 ft from the building.

After a bunch of heavy sweating and sleepless nights, the council passed an exception to the ordinance.

And the Baptist will tell you that Jesus turned the water into Grape Juice that the same word was used for it as wine. Which may be true, but I doubt they were downing Grape Juice at the wedding.
 
And the Baptist will tell you that Jesus turned the water into Grape Juice that the same word was used for it as wine.

The only one's in Christianity who believe that sheer idiocy are the Baptists, and other fruitcakes.

In fact back when I was a kid (raised Catholic) and was going through communion, I asked the priest about why wine was one of the sacraments. He actually when into a whole discussion about how in many parts of the world, especially 2,000 years ag, water was often dangerous to drink, and that's why fermented beverages like wine were very important to many cultures, and even considered sacred, because nothing pathogenic could exist in it.

Can't really say that about grape or any fruit juice....that's why they added the yeast.

That and the whole, "it feels good" thing.
 
I believe any lawyer worth more than $0.01 would be able to get the permit based on a lawsuit accusing the county of not complying to seperation of church and state.
 
The only one's in Christianity who believe that sheer idiocy are the Baptists, and other fruitcakes.

Reverend, I expect better of you than to make blanket statements like that. My mom's a Baptist and she believes no such thing.

Open-mindedness and closed-mindedness are people traits. They are not inherent to belief systems.
 
I believe any lawyer worth more than $0.01 would be able to get the permit based on a lawsuit accusing the county of not complying to seperation of church and state.

you'd hope right? But they'd probably just cite some other vague reasons.
 
My dad's side of the family is southern baptist,& they made wine,& drank. My grandma made a great cherry wine as well. She just didn't believe in drinking beer. So it could be that this church is pushing the no alcohol belief for personal reasons.
 
My dad's side of the family is southern baptist,& they made wine,& drank. My grandma made a great cherry wine as well. She just didn't believe in drinking beer. So it could be that this church is pushing the no alcohol belief for personal reasons.

While plenty of Southern Baptist drink, it is defaintly against the chruches wishes. It's one of the big jokes in the south about the way on Sunday all of the good upstanding Baptist talk the talk, but one Friday night they are pounding them down with the best of them.

Why do you always take at least 2 Baptist fishing? Because if you only take one, he will drink all of your beer.
 
Can't really say that about grape or any fruit juice....that's why they added the yeast.
.

They didn't have to add yeast. A Barrel of Grape Juice, sitting out in the Middle East is going to be wine after a few days even if they didn't want it to be.
 
Reverend, I expect better of you than to make blanket statements like that. My mom's a Baptist and she believes no such thing.

Open-mindedness and closed-mindedness are people traits. They are not inherent to belief systems.

Whether she condones drinking or not, it is well known that Baptists teach abstinence from alcohol. It's not a stereotype, it's the truth. I should know, I was raised baptist and not even SOUTHERN baptist!

In any congregation, there will be people who don't follow the rules.

Unfortunately, this is another case of our American Political System doing what it's supposed to do. The matter was brought up, discussed, voted on, and a ruling made.

Maybe this homebrewer should have made a better case for himself. It sounds like he was not prepared to compete against the church's members, who seemed to be united in opposition. Maybe if he had his own group of interested peoples at the meeting the outcome would have been different.

At any rate, the council should have considered how his operation would deviate from any current ordinances, and if there is any ordinance that would prevent a brewery from operating within x number of feet from a church.

Unless the proceedings did not follow prescribed procedures, he simply lost. That happens a lot to a minority.
 
Not all Baptist are against alcohol... an some other groups are also.

It is funny the 'stigma' of a brewery near the church (from article)... I wonder what they'd say about Trapists... oh right.. drunken Catholics. It is funny my priest just started brewing - I helped him with his first batch.

Maybe the problem is beer which is more ancient Egypt than Ancient Isreal. Biblically wine shows up un ancient Isreal >shrug< I'm an equal opertunist and drink it all.

There are a lot more hurdles than the zoning one, and at the surface that is what it appears to be. Although it also appears that the varriance to the zoning might be being block by a few busybodies.
 
Yeah,that's pretty much the way it was. They don't really believe in not drinking,they just don't talk about it. I never saw anything wrong with having alcohol around when I was a kid,& we went to that old,rather quaint wooden church. It was like stepping into a time warp. I miss that part of it. The women dressed proper,the little paste board/lath fans with holy pictures on them. All that stuff.
But I don't believe in the no alcohol bit. Even in biblical times/places,beer was very common on the table. Moreso than wine,beer being cheaper. They were both safer to drink than plain water. That being the primary motivation. Also,ancient Egyptian beer contained high amounts of tetracycline. The pyramid workers being paid in beer seems to have kept them quite healthy indeed. So why should the church be against it?...
 
Yeah,that's pretty much the way it was. They don't really believe in not drinking,they just don't talk about it. I never saw anything wrong with having alcohol around when I was a kid,& we went to that old,rather quaint wooden church. It was like stepping into a time warp. I miss that part of it. The women dressed proper,the little paste board/lath fans with holy pictures on them. All that stuff.
But I don't believe in the no alcohol bit. Even in biblical times/places,beer was very common on the table. Moreso than wine,beer being cheaper. They were both safer to drink than plain water. That being the primary motivation. Also,ancient Egyptian beer contained high amounts of tetracycline. The pyramid workers being paid in beer seems to have kept them quite healthy indeed. So why should the church be against it?...

It's kind of funny, according to Maureen Ogle in Ambitious Brew, that in the early pre-prohibition period at the beginning of the Temperance movement, beer was actually considered the "good" alcohol. Compared to rum and other spirits. There were all these things, even put out by the temperance movement saying beer was benign.

Beer was healthy, it was "liquid bread" they even believed that you couldn't get drunk on beer.

But when anti-German sentiments aroused by World War I fed the flames of the temperance movement (one activist even declared that &#8220;the worst of all our German enemies are Pabst, Schlitz, Blatz, and Miller&#8221;), that beer was lumped along with all the other alcoholic beverages.
 
If anyone is interested, the introduction to The Search for God and Guinness by Stephen Mansfield provides a brief overview of the history of beer in the church. Very well-written. Beer and the church are very much intertwined - in fact, most breweries were in the church back in the day.
 
If anyone is interested, the introduction to The Search for God and Guinness by Stephen Mansfield provides a brief overview of the history of beer in the church. Very well-written. Beer and the church are very much intertwined - in fact, most breweries were in the church back in the day.

Oh cool. I want!!!!
 
We had a bit of a dicussion on this topic during lent. I put some information in that thread.

In the history of Christianity, alcoholic prohibition is a relatively new idea. In fact, alcohol was a normal part of life. In Colonial America, the Puritans expected Christians to drink (Hearn, 1943). In the 1700s, a Baptist minister created the formula for bourbon whiskey (Hailey, 1992). During the 1800s, many Southern ministers operated stills, and sold alcohol (Hearn, 1943). Parishioners who owned stills would tithe their alcohol; and preachers' salaries often included whiskey. All this began to change, however, as the Temperance movement took shape (Hailey, 1992).

The idea that alcohol was dangerous was not new, though. In 600 B.C. Pathagoras noted, "drunkenness is an expression identical with ruin." In 44 B.C., Cicero wrote, "a sensual and intemperate youth hands over a worn-out body to old age," when he drinks to excess. Centuries later, Muhammed declared, "there is a devil in every berry of the grape" (Hearn, 1943). In fact, Islam has a total prohibition of alcohol, proclaiming drinking a sin (Parshall, 1989). Chaucer wrote in A.D. 1380, "character and shame depart when wine comes in." Clearly, for thousands of years, men have known of the dangers of alcohol. Knowledge about the dangers of alcohol stopped few from drinking, however. Jesus not only drank, his first miracle was turning water to wine; and he used wine as a symbol of the salvation through his blood (Hearn, 1943; Jn 2; Lk 22:20).

For Southern Baptists, too, alcohol was a part of life. That is until the Temperance movement began to infiltrate the religious denominations in America. Finally, in 1896, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced alcohol and asked that churches excommunicate anyone who sold or drank alcohol. For the first time in Southern Baptist history, drinking was considered immoral. The success of this measure is debatable. A Southern Baptist study has shown that in the 1990s, 46 percent of members drink alcohol (Hailey, 1992).

Investigation shows that although people knew of the danger in alcohol, throughout history, Christian prohibition is a new, and rather American, phenomenon. The decisions of churches to abstain came out of the American Temperance movement. David Hailey, though supporting the SBC's resolution, admits that biblical support for abstinence was an after-thought. Christians had decided, for social reasons, that alcohol was wrong. Only then, did they turn to the Bible to find support (Hailey, 1992).

(I kinda like that first paragrah....paid in hooch, eh? ;))

From ALCOHOLIC PROHIBITION IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES AND ITS IMPLICATION ON THE PRIESTHOOD OF BELIEVERS
 

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