Chris Colby on malt conditioning

[kappclark]

I listen every week, and that one just seemed like more work ! I will start grinding grain soon- is that the time I should worry about this ?

I wonder why I have never heard of this ...

A spray bottle seems easiest

 

[bendavanza]

For me it makes a difference in crush, and lautering, and since I am starting to do RIMS with my next batch, that will be good. It takes very little time, I start this when I am heating the strike water. Doughing in seems easier, too.
fluffy husks are happy husks

 

[Denny]

I don't think that was it. I tried it with and without Five Star 5.2 ph stabilizer, and it made no difference.

But that assumes 5.2 always works....I haven't found that to be the case.

 

[ejunk]

off the thread of conversation here, but I'm looking forward to introducing malt conditioning into my brew process. thanks for the methods write-up, kaiser!

yrs-
Evan!

 

[Cape Brewing]

+10000 on the rollers getting gummed up.

My malt mill started jumping around like crazy, finally seized, and the force of the drill I had conencted to it picked up the whole thing, spun it in the air and split the hardboard base the mill was orginally mounted on into two pieces.

So... just a little tip for folks.... if your mill starts really struggling to crush smoothly, STOP the mill... clean the rollers and then proceed.

i am pretty sure I just didn't let the grain sit long enough as once I cleaned the mill, the grain had sat a bit longer and it all flew right through no problem.

 

[FlyGuy]

But that assumes 5.2 always works....I haven't found that to be the case.

That's probably true, Denny -- but if I trust my pH meter, it says I haven't had an issue yet.

Regardless, I am still unsure how you think malt conditioning is related to a pH change? When I crushed fine without conditioning, I got shredded husks and some slight off-flavours (tannic, astringent). When I conditioned (with the same crush), they disappeared. I think it has more to do with shredded husks having more surface area and greater propensity to extract tannins.

 

[malkore]

remember to compare it to our own wiki page on malt conditioning: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malt_Conditioning

 

[flananuts]

I Saw Bobby on the thread earlier and have to promote his new videos on Youtube on Malt conditioning. The video really shows the value of the spray technique and how fluffier the crush looks, not to mention the nearly intact hulls. I will certainly be doing this on Sunday when I brew.

Here's the link to his page and the video mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj#p/u/0/KUyifHMy9Fs

 

[babalu87]

+10000 on the rollers getting gummed up.

My malt mill started jumping around like crazy, finally seized, and the force of the drill I had conencted to it picked up the whole thing, spun it in the air and split the hardboard base the mill was orginally mounted on into two pieces.

So... just a little tip for folks.... if your mill starts really struggling to crush smoothly, STOP the mill... clean the rollers and then proceed.

i am pretty sure I just didn't let the grain sit long enough as once I cleaned the mill, the grain had sat a bit longer and it all flew right through no problem.

I have to ask why the companies that make grain mills put them on that ghetto-fabulous hardboard?

You'll be mint once you get that bolted to a piece of good plywood with fender washers AND tighten that gap until yer scared :rockin:
I'd tighten the other bolts/screws and make sure its square too.

Did I hear correctly that this months Zymurgy has an article on grain conditioning as well?

Hopefully they explored the easy spray and stir method that Kai brought to light.

 

[Bobby_M]

The spray and stir method works perfectly for me so far and I didn't notice my mill getting gummed up at all. You're not putting oatmeal through it.

 

[babalu87]

The spray and stir method works perfectly for me so far and I didn't notice my mill getting gummed up at all. You're not putting oatmeal through it.

I have a little chart where my brewing stuff is taped to a freezer.

.27 ounces water/lb of grain

Also has the decimal equivalents for ounces, pretty damn handy.

 

[remilard]

I think it has more to do with shredded husks having more surface area and greater propensity to extract tannins.

Bingo. Tannin extraction is greater at higher temperatures and higher pH, but its not like it magically shuts off at a pH of 5.8 or lower or something.

Most people accept that six-row barley gives a different flavor (grainier perhaps) than two-row in a properly conducted mash and sparge. Similarly I would hope that anyone who has had Trumer Pilsner, which is mashed without husks, notices that it has a distinct character.

IMO, if one believes, as most of us do, that the amount of husk material affects beer flavor then it is natural to believe that exposing more surface area for a given amount of husk material is a factor as well.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have a little chart where my brewing stuff is taped to a freezer.

.27 ounces water/lb of grain

Also has the decimal equivalents for ounces, pretty damn handy.

That's pretty close to my guess of 1oz of water to 5lbs of grain.

 

[babalu87]

One day I'm gonna get me one of these:

 

[Cape Brewing]

The spray and stir method works perfectly for me so far and I didn't notice my mill getting gummed up at all. You're not putting oatmeal through it.

it's worked really well for me three or four times but then just this once, it gummed up really badly. As mentioned, I think I just didn't let the grains sit long enough before milling.

I think it's still a valuable point though that "gumming up" is a possibility for folks and if you feel your mill starting to struggle, it's an easy fix.... just stop, clean off the rollers and give your grain a couple more minutes of rest time. And the problem should be solved.

 

[samc]

Tried this method yesterday for the first time. 6 ounces water by weight on 21lbs of Pilsen (first time using this grain). Sprayed on and mixed, let sit for about 25 minutes. Husks were remarkable intact. Overshot my OG by a few points, but I also changed my RIMS method a bit so not a real scientific experiment for me.

Very minor spot or two where grain has stuck to rollers, not a big deal.

 

[Denny]

That's probably true, Denny -- but if I trust my pH meter, it says I haven't had an issue yet.

Well, I guess that answers that!

Regardless, I am still unsure how you think malt conditioning is related to a pH change? When I crushed fine without conditioning, I got shredded husks and some slight off-flavours (tannic, astringent). When I conditioned (with the same crush), they disappeared. I think it has more to do with shredded husks having more surface area and greater propensity to extract tannins.

Sorry, I must not have been clear. I was wondering if the tannins you mentioned were related to pH rather than just the way the husks looked. My experience is that shredded husks really don't matter if your pH is in line. Obviously, YMMV.

 

[FlyGuy]

Denny, honestly it is hard for me to say. I have only conditioned 3 batches, the latter two of which were with the finer crush again. So not much of a sample size to be sure. But it looks like my issues were related to the shredded husks themselves since my pH has not changed much.

I am also mashing pretty thin now, so that might affect things on the sparge (my batch sparge is probably lower gravity than most, and therefore has less buffering capacity to deal with a pH drop). I am not using 5.2 in the sparge water.

 

[Bobby_M]

The interesting thing for me is that conditioned malt through a .030" gap still leaves the husks more intact than dry malt through a .045" gap. I gained 8% efficiency on this batch but it's a complete garbage number because I also fly sparged. Nothing like changing multiple variables.

 

[Denny]

I am also mashing pretty thin now, so that might affect things on the sparge (my batch sparge is probably lower gravity than most, and therefore has less buffering capacity to deal with a pH drop). I am not using 5.2 in the sparge water.

Minor correction...if anything, pH will rise on the sparge, not drop. In multiple testes, I've found my pH to remain pretty constant through a batch sparge.

 

[flananuts]

I just condtioned 12 lbs of grain for an apa that I'll run through my barley crusher at stock setting. I'll grab a couple pics of the crush. I'm going to wait about an hour after wetting the grain before I crush.
I just love sunday morning brew sessions. I'm in the basement brewing while SWMBO is making shepards pie and baking chocolate chip cookies for the oldest who's got a fever. Life is what you make of it.

 

[FlyGuy]

Minor correction...if anything, pH will rise on the sparge, not drop. In multiple testes, I've found my pH to remain pretty constant through a batch sparge.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry.

What is your liquor to grist ratio Denny? If it is somewhere around 1.3 quarts/lb and you only do one batch sparge, I would be surprised if your pH budged at all.

 

[Kaiser]

There is an article on malt conditioning in the new issue of Zymurgy. Didn't take the time to read it just yet, but it seems to get into a lot of the science behind the practice.

Is this the March/April issue? I haven't gotten it yet but looked at the web and didn't see anything mentioned.

Kai

 

[Denny]

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry.

What is your liquor to grist ratio Denny? If it is somewhere around 1.3 quarts/lb and you only do one batch sparge, I would be surprised if your pH budged at all.

These days it runs anywhere from 1.5-1.75 qt./lb.

 

[Kaiser]

Is this the March/April issue? I haven't gotten it yet but looked at the web and didn't see anything mentioned.

Kai

Yes it is

What a coincident that my article on malt conditioning is in the current issue of Zymurgy. Including some pictures that are not on my website. The article is also much better written then what you find on Braukaiser.com. That's courtesy of my wife who cleans up bad style and grammar.

Kai

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yes it is

What a coincident that my article on malt conditioning is in the current issue of Zymurgy. Including some pictures that are not on my website. The article is also much better written then what you find on Braukaiser.com. That's courtesy of my wife who cleans up bad style and grammar.

Kai

Brother, It's always our wives that make us look better. No matter the context.

 

[babalu87]

Yes it is

What a coincident that my article on malt conditioning is in the current issue of Zymurgy. Including some pictures that are not on my website. The article is also much better written then what you find on Braukaiser.com. That's courtesy of my wife who cleans up bad style and grammar.

Kai

Dont tell me........its in the Geek section :rockin:

This will certainly get interesting :fro:

 

[biertourist]

For the earlier posts that highlight the Chris Colby method vs. the Kai method, the professional brewing literature mentions that another benefit of using steam for the purposes of malt conditioning is supposedly that it "aromatizes" the malt and it may have a positive impact on flavor.

I'm not sure whether the steam option raises the temperature of the malt but I'd imagine that it could in which case you'd need to double-check your dough-in temp for your water infusion downward so you don't mash in too hot.


Adam

 

[biertourist]

For the earlier posts that highlight the Chris Colby method vs. the Kai method, the professional brewing literature mentions that another benefit of using steam for the purposes of malt conditioning is supposedly that it "aromatizes" the malt and it may have a positive impact on flavor.

I'm not sure whether the steam option raises the temperature of the malt but I'd imagine that it could in which case you'd need to double-check your dough-in temp for your water infusion downward so you don't mash in too hot.


Adam