Chocolate Stout recipe thoughts

[Shwagger]

12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] 60
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] 30

I plan to add some liquid chocolate extract after primary.

I am looking for more chocolate and little to no coffee. Not a fan of coffee. Also, not too sweet.

Thoughts? notes? Changes?

 

[Miraculix]

Why don't you throw in all the hops at 60? Doesn't make much of a difference flavour wise, but you would get increased bittering so you would need less hops.

 

[Shwagger]

Hops are an afterthought here. Doesn't really matter where they go

 

[McKnuckle]

My opinion is that you might have not enough middle ground malts to produce a nice blend of flavors. You've got pale malt and almost 12% roasted malts, all in the high Lovibond range. That is only balanced by less than 7% crystal, which is 120L, a burnt raisin type of sweetness (i.e. not much).

Suggestion would be to add some toasty/nutty flavors in there via biscuit or Victory malt, and to balance the crystal part of the bill with some C60, which has more caramel notes. Perhaps bump the crystal to 8% with a 50/50 mix of 120L and 60L. Drop a bit of the patent malt and a bit of base malt, and add back 5% biscuit malt.

Also, if you source some UK roasted barley, it's 550L and that can allow you to ditch the patent altogether and still get your dark color. You can avoid being overly sweet with mash temp/time and yeast attenuation. Doesn't have to come only from avoiding crystal malts. Personally I feel the crystal and roast balance is a key factor in a stout or porter.

 

[Shwagger]

Would the roasted barley add too much coffee flavor? I also thought of using MO instead of 2 row. I am a fan of MO

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Why don't you throw in all the hops at 60? Doesn't make much of a difference flavour wise, but you would get increased bittering so you would need less hops.

It does make a difference though, it just layers the quality of the bittering a bit. Not a huge difference, but the extra utilisation on a 60min boil over 30 isn't so great that you'll be saving a lot of money from the hop saving. It's not something worth sweating either way IMO.

@Shwagger - don't know if you've seen the Sam Smiths thread but I mentioned the SIBA-and WBA- winning Saltaire Triple Chocoholic recipe at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=370706&page=15 which gets its colour from 10% chocolate malt and that's it.

 

[Shwagger]

I'd have to toss that in beersmith and see what the color output is. I am a fan of less ingredients. Thanks

 

[Leezer]

My second chocolate stout is currently fermenting so I'm far from an expert. But my recipe (2.5G) used the same grains, except no black patent and added 4.4oz flaked oats. With 10 min left in boil I added 3.6oz Hersheys unsweetened cocoa powder. About a week into fermentation I put in 2oz cocoa nibs that had been soaking in vodka for 4 days. At bottling time it had a nice roasty chocolaty flavor, but after being in the bottles for awhile the chocolate flavor faded (although still tasted nice). This time I upped the cocoa powder to 4.2 and will add more cocoa nibs, haven't decided how much yet, and will soak them longer in vodka. Trying to increase the choc flavor but don't want it to be overwhelming. If you use the liquid choc extract I'd be interested in knowing how that works out.

 

[McKnuckle]

The liquid extract should give you more cocoa aroma and a little flavor, unless used in large quantities where flavor would also get a big bump (as I believe Sam Smith practices). Cocoa powder is roasty but not really chocolately, despite what one would think. I made the mistake once of mashing with cocoa powder, which is quite acidic and took my pH down to an unhappy level. I added it in secondary too, along with nibs, thinking I was going nuts on the chocolate. But it just didn't have the impact I wanted. I think a lot of extract is the key to an obvious chocolate character, to be enhanced by the malt bill (something I'm very much still working on).

 

[BrewMan13]

I've never done a chocolate stout per se, but I find pale chocolate malt has a more chocolatey flavor than regular chocolate malt.

 

[Shwagger]

Saw dark chocolate malt the other day. Any experience there?

 

[McKnuckle]

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_DarkChocolateMalt.pdf

 

[day_trippr]

After comparing the Breiss character plots I'm definitely interested in getting my LHBS to stock this...



Cheers!

 

[Shwagger]

Looks good