Chasing a CO2 leak

[Off Balance Brewing]

do you use flare nuts on your gas lines?

edit: and do you use a manifold?

I don't use flare nylon washers. I use plastic disconnects, I thought you only needed those for metal to metal connections. I can try adding those but I don't notice a leak when they are submerged.

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

smooshing is a thing too, not just twisting? unless you're replacing that tank o-ring every swap? damn, thanks for that! you just reminded me i think there's a special thing for tanks to use those o-rings...

something like this that screws into the cylinder valve?

https://www.amazon.com/Valve-Stopper-Permanent-Washer-Insert/dp/B07KCLB2FY

Isn't this the same that's on the end of new regulators with the oring?

 

[bracconiere]

I don't use flare nylon washers. I use plastic disconnects, I thought you only needed those for metal to metal connections. I can try adding those but I don't notice a leak when they are submerged.

but the flare might be loose? and you're right with the plastic QD you don't need a washer...but still the nuts can get loose over time...double check they are all tight?

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

The last 2 tanks I got (filled swaps), I've been putting 3 wraps of teflon tape on the tank's threads. Not for making a seal but to reduce friction when torquing the regulator nut on it. I could not get the main connection leak free without the tape. I use a super heavy 16" adjustable wrench, which has an awesome leverage and grip (even without a glove).

Can you slide a heavy duty steel tube over your 8" wrench for some needed extra leverage, or some other extension? My cars' lug nuts are torqued with a 3' steel pole over the lug wrench.

Man I've never needed to tighten them that much..maybe that's why I have a slow leak. I tried adding the washer tonight and gave the wrench a heavy torque. I'll see if that helps...or I'll flip over another 14inch box wrench to leverage it.

 

[bracconiere]

Isn't this the same that's on the end of new regulators with the oring?

i think that one screws into the tank? but they make an insert like that, that is just solid metal. that's what i was looking for, to use with the regs with the rubber o-ring?

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

but the flare might be loose? and you're right with the plastic QD you don't need a washer...but still the nuts can get loose over time...double check they are all tight?

I did...but will again

 

[bracconiere]

I did...but will again

how old is the regulator? i find mine only last about 5 years before starting to leak from the internals....

 

[bracconiere]

@Off Balance Brewing can you shut the lines off with a shut off at the reg it's self? to see if the reg is leaking i'd kill then lines on mine and shut off the tank too...then i'd know it was leaking from the regulator's internals?

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

i think that one screws into the tank? but they make an insert like that, that is just solid metal. that's what i was looking for, to use with the regs with the rubber o-ring?

Interesting. You think it's just a better seal surface on the tank for the washer to seal to?

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

how old is the regulator? i find mine only last about 5 years before starting to leak from the internals....

6 months old...but I'm not impressed. Been having creep problems.

 

[bracconiere]

Interesting. You think it's just a better seal surface on the tank for the washer to seal to?

if you notice on a lot of co2 cylinders they have a groove right where the o-ring in one of those "you don't need a tank washer" regulators have the o-ring...

6 months old...but I'm not impressed. Been having creep problems.

for creep it's best when setting the pressure to turn the lines off at the reg, and set the pressure then, much faster response time seeing what it's actually at....

 

[balrog]

https://www.amazon.com/Valve-Stopper-Permanent-Washer-Insert/dp/B07KCLB2FY

But then you'd also be adding yet another connection that can leak, between the threads of the doohickey and the tank.

With the groove and O=ring on the tank, you will shmoosh the O-ring some, but the groove alleviates total destruction of the O-ring. HOWEVER, any shmooshage outside the groove can cause leaks if shoomage is not shmooshed perfectly evenly 360° around the face of contact between tank side and regulator side.

I always use a nylon flat washer, pre-shmoosh, whether there is O-ring or not. I switch tanks rather than refill, and have had both grooved and non-grooved.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

All you need is about 30 ft-lbs on the CO2 regulator to tank connection. An 8" crescent would work in a pinch, seeing that captive CO2 wrenches are about 10" in length.

Standard CO2 thread (CGA-320 thread) is not tapered. Using sealants or Teflon tape will not prevent leakage. Tension against the tank valve is what will make a proper seal on a CO2 tank. In the industry, while less torque may work, 20-30 ft/lbs of torque should ensure that no leaking occurs between the connection of tank to regulator. A plastic washer, fiber washer, or built-in O-ring is needed to make the seal. Without them leaking is almost certainly going to occur. It’s astonishing how fast a full tank can leak out, even with a small leak which cannot be heard. We recommend turning the gas cylinder gate valve “Off” when not in use.

I'm with @WESBREW ; 8" crescent wrench isn't big enough, you need more torque to tighten regulator to tank. longer wrench handle. But I also suspect if I read you correctly in the first post, that shutting off tank and shutting off just below regulator, means you have isolated a leak between tank valve and below-regulator-shut-off-valves (which can leak.
You may have to submerge entire tank/regulator/lines into bath tub.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Been chasing a leak for months. Burned through 2 5lb tanks in 2 months. Even bought a new dual regulator after giving up.

With the CO2 lines shut off, I turn off the tank and my regulator high pressure gauge loses about 30 percent over a day. No leaks detected by soapy water. Not sure how long this pressure should hold.

I open all three lines and submerge to check for leaks and don't see any. Pressure holds the same as above.

I've isolated one of my kegs for a leak. This keg holds pressure over days no drop. I hook it up the gas disconnect and the high pressure gauge drops to zero within two hours.

I think it could only be the gas post oring so I replace that. No help.

What am I missing???

Mix an ounce of dish soap in half a cup of water, turn the Co2 regulator pressure up to 30-35 psi, then use a small paint brush and coat every connection with the soapy solution. In good lighting, if there is a leak anywhere you should be able to quickly find it.

 

[faithie999]

sorry if I missed this. have you verified that the large o-ring on the keg lid is sealed properly? rather than a soap test I would fill the bathtub, pressurize the keg, then disconnect the gas line to the keg and put the keg into the bath tub.

but if your keg is full, laying it on its side in the tub will submerge the gasket on the inside with beer so you wouldn't easily see a leak. if it is partially full, some of the gasket will be "above water" inside the keg when it's on its side, so you'll need to periodically roll the keg a few inches so that eventually the entire gasket will be exposed to co2 from the inside and beer won't block the escape of gas if there is a leak.

 

[bracconiere]

But then you'd also be adding yet another connection that can leak, between the threads of the doohickey and the tank.

With the groove and O=ring on the tank, you will shmoosh the O-ring some, but the groove alleviates total destruction of the O-ring. HOWEVER, any shmooshage outside the groove can cause leaks if shoomage is not shmooshed perfectly evenly 360° around the face of contact between tank side and regulator side.

I always use a nylon flat washer, pre-shmoosh, whether there is O-ring or not. I switch tanks rather than refill, and have had both grooved and non-grooved.

i swear reading that i felt like you were willy wonka, and i was in a beer factory!

and i sooo agree with use the nylon washer.....

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

if you notice on a lot of co2 cylinders they have a groove right where the o-ring in one of those "you don't need a tank washer" regulators have the o-ring...




for creep it's best when setting the pressure to turn the lines off at the reg, and set the pressure then, much faster response time seeing what it's actually at....

I'll have to try setting with the valves off, thanks.

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

sorry if I missed this. have you verified that the large o-ring on the keg lid is sealed properly? rather than a soap test I would fill the bathtub, pressurize the keg, then disconnect the gas line to the keg and put the keg into the bath tub.

but if your keg is full, laying it on its side in the tub will submerge the gasket on the inside with beer so you wouldn't easily see a leak. if it is partially full, some of the gasket will be "above water" inside the keg when it's on its side, so you'll need to periodically roll the keg a few inches so that eventually the entire gasket will be exposed to co2 from the inside and beer won't block the escape of gas if there is a leak.

Yeah the keg holds pressure not hooked up. When I hook it up it leaks but I've replaced the disconnects and post orings.

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

Update

Looks like adding the washer (I like the fiber ones) and giving a higher torque has fixed the tank connection leak. No drop over 24 hr. Not trusting the oring anymore.

Still need to troubleshooting the keg.