Changing Mash Tun Coolers

[rowco]

Hey HBT gurus,

Quick n00b question on a mash tun upgrade.
I've been using a 10 gallon Igloo circular cooler and am looking to go larger so I can do both bigger batches and bigger beers without having to double mash/sparge.

I'm thinking of going rectangular and getting one in the 25 gallon range.
My question is: can I still use my existing circular false bottom in the rectangular cooler, or will i need to build a manifold of some kind.

My false bottom is a 12" or so perforated screen type like you see in most LHBS. Seems like it would be fine, but I could use an idiot check.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[BackAlley]

Batch or fly sparge?

 

[BulldogBrewer]

I doubt a round false bottom in a rectangular cooler would provide an appropriate structure to create a filter bed. You're most likely going to need to build a manifold. Unless you had an idea on how to modify it for use in the rectangular cooler...

 

[beersk]

If you're batch sparging and the cooler is big enough to fit it, then it should work. But I'd probably just make a braided hose deal for this kind of cooler. It's what I use for my 36qt Xtreme cooler, works like a charm.

 

[chezhed]

Hey HBT gurus, . . .
I'm thinking of going rectangular and getting one in the 25 gallon range.

Wow...that is one big cooler....did you mean 25 quart?....

I don't think a round false bottom on a rectangular cooler would work as desired, not to say it won't at all, just would think you might get more hulls and such in your runoffs.

 

[GrogNerd]

Wow...that is one big cooler....did you mean 25 quart?....

I don't think a round false bottom on a rectangular cooler would work as desired, not to say it won't at all, just would think you might get more hulls and such in your runoffs.

25 gallon size is not unreasonable

I use a 70-qt. plenty big for me. I don't worry about too much headspace and losing temps; I cover the grainbed with aluminum foil and don't lose temps during mash

 

[SteveHeff]

I would stay away from the rectangular style coolers. There is WAY too much dead space in those units. You are better off with a larger circular style. I use a rectangular cooler and my efficiency tops off around 68%. Never any higher. I've tracked the culprit back to my mash tun. Honest truth.

 

[beersk]

I would stay away from the rectangular style coolers. There is WAY too much dead space in those units. You are better off with a larger circular style. I use a rectangular cooler and my efficiency tops off around 68%. Never any higher. I've tracked the culprit back to my mash tun. Honest truth.

That's crazy, you're making that up.

 

[GrogNerd]

I'm still a n00b, dialing in equipment and getting technique squared away, but on my last batches I got ≈ 80% with my rectangular 70qt

 

[chezhed]

25 gallon size is not unreasonable

I use a 70-qt. plenty big for me. I don't worry about too much headspace and losing temps; I cover the grainbed with aluminum foil and don't lose temps during mash

I use a 70 quart as well and fill it doing 12 gallon barleywines.....otherwise, it is usually wasted space. I have a smaller 36 qt for 5/6 gallon batches. I still say 100 quart is way overkill for most homebrewers, especially a new one.....not to say he doesn't have big dreams:fro:

And the rectangular mash tun excuse for efficiency is bull.....I hit 78% regularly using rectangular tuns.

 

[amandabab]

That's crazy, you're making that up.

if he's using a large cooler, with a lot of heat lost on pre-heat, not checking the preheat, a shallow grain bed and fly sparging the rectangular cooler could produce results not as good as a deep round.

but all things being equal, the enzymes don't really care if there are corners or not.

 

[SteveHeff]

That's crazy, you're making that up.

I may be crazy, however I am no liar. amandabab is right about some things, but I'm usually pretty spot on for temps. Grain bed is evenly distributed. I batch sparge, too. I also use braided line vs. a manifold. There has been some speculation (from brewing friends) that the line becomes crushed by the grain, but I still have good flow from the nozzle. I've brewed the same exact recipe side by side with a buddy who utilizes the 10 gallon gatorade style MT. He finished around 77% and I was at 68%. Numbers do not always tell the whole truth, but I have my reasons to suspect the design of my MT is the reason my numbers end up as low as they are.

 

[rowco]

Wow thanks so much for all the quick replies. I am looking at the 100 quart size, mainly because I own a recording studio and keep 2 - 3 beers on tap at all times. Over the last 6 months we've been burning through around 5 gallons a week, and I'd really like to build up a reserve of kegs to be available and it's hard to do @ 6 gal batches at a time!

It sounds like the manifold route will be the best route to go for this size then, I'm obviously not going to throw away the smaller tun either. I'll just keep that for experimenting with new recipes.

Thanks again for the advice!

-Row

 

[rowco]

Batch sparge btw, to answer the question.

 

[chezhed]

I may be crazy, however I am no liar. amandabab is right about some things, but I'm usually pretty spot on for temps. Grain bed is evenly distributed. I batch sparge, too. I also use braided line vs. a manifold. There has been some speculation (from brewing friends) that the line becomes crushed by the grain, but I still have good flow from the nozzle. I've brewed the same exact recipe side by side with a buddy who utilizes the 10 gallon gatorade style MT. He finished around 77% and I was at 68%. Numbers do not always tell the whole truth, but I have my reasons to suspect the design of my MT is the reason my numbers end up as low as they are.

I still can't believe the shape of the tun has any effect on the efficiency. There are too many other variables that actually could. Unless everything else was exactly the same, grain crush, mash water flow and mix rate, temperature at start, heat loss measured, same exact sparge flow, temp, mixing, design of braided line,etc....there is no way to compare the tuns. I think the problem, and don't take me wrong, is technique. There are just too many of us using these not-round tuns with great efficiency. And I put 37 lbs of grain on a braided tube without crushing it......

 

[SteveHeff]

I still can't believe the shape of the tun has any effect on the efficiency. There are too many other variables that actually could. Unless everything else was exactly the same, grain crush, mash water flow and mix rate, temperature at start, heat loss measured, same exact sparge flow, temp, mixing, design of braided line,etc....there is no way to compare the tuns. I think the problem, and don't take me wrong, is technique. There are just too many of us using these not-round tuns with great efficiency. And I put 37 lbs of grain on a braided tube without crushing it......

Here is what I think it the main problem: dead space. The amount of dead space in a rectangular unit is much greater than a round unit. I'm sure a manifold could possibly correct that issue. But just like most people who brew for fun, I've haven't had the time to construct one. I don't personally think my braided line was ever crushed (I've tried to deform it with my fingers and it feels just rigid enough) but it was the popular opinion with the other 3 guys I brew with. I too have put over 21 lbs of grain in my MT without issue. It was very very full but I never ran into any issues, other than eff.

I'm not unhappy with my unit, it does exactly what I need it to do. However, if I had to do it over again, I would buy a large gatorade style cooler and go down that road. I'm going to keep it and continue to make changes and see where my efficiency goes to. I have over 20 brews under my belt in 2 years so I feel comfortable with my technique. I'm pretty anal about recording all data and keeping it logged in my books. I would hope I'm doing as much correct as I can by now. That said, if somebody wants a rectangular cooler style, go for it. If you want the gatorade style, have fun. It's not always about how much can you get from your grain, it's about the experience of brewing that allows you to appreciate it so much more. Cheers.:rockin:

 

[chezhed]

Here is what I think it the main problem: dead space. The amount of dead space in a rectangular unit is much greater than a round unit. . . . Cheers.:rockin:

And that was what I questioned as to why someone would need a 100 qt tun....too much dead space.

So it ain't the cooler shape, it's the heat loss and dead space....just so happens in your situation the shape contributes to the dead space...got it! We actually agree

And that is why I kept my original smaller tun from 5 gallon batches...to avoid all that dead space when I brew smaller batches.

 

[Stauffbier]

I have a 52 qt. rectangular MLT. I regularly get between 78-82% efficiency with a SS braid and batch sparge. I almost always have a lot of dead space on a typical mash, but it's not an issue. I only lose 1-2 degrees on a 60-90 minute mash.

Rectangular coolers work very well. If you're getting bad efficiency, then it's likely your lautering system, a pH problem, a grain milling issue, or a problem with technique.

 

[logdrum]

I would stay away from the rectangular style coolers. There is WAY too much dead space in those units. You are better off with a larger circular style. I use a rectangular cooler and my efficiency tops off around 68%. Never any higher. I've tracked the culprit back to my mash tun. Honest truth.

I found the exact opposite to be true. A round 10 gl. Igloo killed my efficiency.

 

[SteveHeff]

And that was what I questioned as to why someone would need a 100 qt tun....too much dead space.

So it ain't the cooler shape, it's the heat loss and dead space....just so happens in your situation the shape contributes to the dead space...got it! We actually agree

And that is why I kept my original smaller tun from 5 gallon batches...to avoid all that dead space when I brew smaller batches.

I don't think we ever disagreed. It's a matter of experience and time. I've only ever used my mash tun. I'm familiar with the problems I encounter. I've never borrowed a friends MT before so I wouldn't know what idiosyncrasies they have. Like I said before, this has never been a pissing match between which is better. More like, "i own this and this is what I get..." type of thing. Anyhow, to the OP, do what you want. Report back when you have more beer!

 

[Stauffbier]

Like I said before, this has never been a pissing match between which is better. More like, "i own this and this is what I get..." type of thing.

Sorry, but your first post which was this;

I would stay away from the rectangular style coolers. There is WAY too much dead space in those units. You are better off with a larger circular style..

Which is very contradictory to what you just said in the top quote. You clearly stated that the OP shouldn't use one type and should use another type. That's not really stating "I own this and this is what I get". You're actually saying that one works and the other doesn't. That's only true for you. It's actually very misleading to new brewers considering rectangular coolers that might be reading this thread.

 

[SteveHeff]

I would hope I'm doing as much correct as I can by now. That said, if somebody wants a rectangular cooler style, go for it. If you want the gatorade style, have fun. It's not always about how much can you get from your grain, it's about the experience of brewing that allows you to appreciate it so much more. Cheers.:rockin:

Remember when I told the guy to get whatever unit he wants?

It's not misleading. It's information. I've given my two cents worth of information. If you think I'm telling half-truths and whole lies, it's your opinion. I'm giving my advice and nothing more. People utilize this website for every opinion ranging from relative new to brewing, all the way to super brewers. I'm still on the newer side of things, but that doesn't mean that my process and equipment is imperfect. I may do some things differently, but my equipment is unique to me and as such I have found issues with rectangular MT. It is MY opinion and the OP can choose whether or not to use it as viable information.

 

[Stauffbier]

Remember when I told the guy to get whatever unit he wants?

It's not misleading. It's information. I've given my two cents worth of information. If you think I'm telling half-truths and whole lies, it's your opinion. I'm giving my advice and nothing more. People utilize this website for every opinion ranging from relative new to brewing, all the way to super brewers. I'm still on the newer side of things, but that doesn't mean that my process and equipment is imperfect. I may do some things differently, but my equipment is unique to me and as such I have found issues with rectangular MT. It is MY opinion and the OP can choose whether or not to use it as viable information.

I'm not trying to rip you. I just wanted to point out that the wording in your first post makes it sound like your telling people not to use rectangular coolers. It's understandable if you don't like them personally, but they do work great for other people.

Cheers and happy brewing to you!

 

[SteveHeff]

I'm not trying to rip you. I just wanted to point out that the wording in your first post makes it sound like your telling people not to use rectangular coolers. It's understandable if you don't like them personally, but they do work great for other people.

Cheers and happy brewing to you!

True. Well, cheers. Happy brewing to you.