Carbonation drops to carbonate?

[dfitts1984]

Hi, has anyone ever used carbonation drops to carbonate their hard cider? I know people add a tablet to every 12 oz. Bottle of beer. So i am assuming the same can be done to cider and maybe even wine? Thank you!

 

[Maylar]

Yes and yes.

 

[z-bob]

I've used sugar cubes to carbonate beer and cider. Then the right sized sugar cubes became really hard to find and then disappeared. Now I use granulated sugar, measuring spoons, and a tiny steel funnel, and it's faster.

 

[mac_1103]

This is the right size.

This is the wrong size.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With sugar cubes and beer, one wants the cube to weigh approximately this:

which works well for many (but not all) styles of beer.

A visual +1 to @mac_1103 for pointing out that these size cubes are available in 2023.

eta: we're in the cider forum. If 2.5 g of sugar is appropriate to carbonate a 12 oz bottle of cider, these cubes are convenient.

 

[z-bob]

The larger (and much easier to find) cubes work well for 500ml plastic bottles. Or two of them for a 1L soda bottle.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

future readers may also want review this topic (link).

 

[Chalkyt]

Just for fun, let's go back to fundamentals. It is a cool drizzly morning here in Oz and the apples aren't quite ripe yet, so I might as well spend some time inside and throw in my two cent's worth.

To carbonate, you need enough sugar in the sealed bottle for residual yeast to eat it up and convert it to C02 and alcohol. Fermenting 2 gravity points will produce about 1 volume of C02, so for normal carbonation at 2 - 3 volumes you need to start with something like SG1.005 and finish with SG1.000. SG 1.005 is about 10g of sugar per litre, which is what the conventional wisdom (or at least Andrew Lea) says you need.

This translates to 3.3g per per 330ml (12 oz) bottle. The trick then, is to add enough sugar to suit your bottle or level of carbonation that you are after. Hey presto!... Some "popular" carbonation drops are 3.3g which is just right for a 330ml (12 oz) bottle, but if you are using different bottles you need different quantities of drops.

I actually prime in my bottling bucket, using apple juice or a sugar syrup (it mixes in easily and evenly), and measure the resulting SG rather than relying on quantity. Sugar will mix in near boiling water at a ratio of about 3:1 but I usually do 2:1 and also get the advantage that the hot water sanitises the sugar, so it doesn't add any unwanted nasties.

So, if you want to prime bottles, my suggestion is to make up a sugar syrup and add that via a small syringe. To make life really easy a 1:1 syrup means that you are adding 1g of sugar per ml of syrup, so 3 - 4 ml (or about 2/3 teaspoon) per 330ml (12oz) bottle does the job.

Anyhow it works for me. Have fun!

 

[Cider Wraith]

This is a compelling topic and I've reread @Chalkyt 's post above several times. The last time I bottle carbonated was two decades ago but I'm now setting out on natural carbonating in kegs. I can't believe folks add individually specific amounts of sugar to individual bottles. That sounds so labor intensive and error prone that maybe I've misread what's happening. Wouldn't the safest thing be to add priming sugar to the secondary mixing it throughly up and then bottle so each bottle would get the identical amount of new fermentables?

 

[z-bob]

This is a compelling topic and I've reread @Chalkyt 's post above several times. The last time I bottle carbonated was two decades ago but I'm now setting out on natural carbonating in kegs. I can't believe folks add individually specific amounts of sugar to individual bottles. That sounds so labor intensive and error prone that maybe I've misread what's happening. Wouldn't the safest thing be to add priming sugar to the secondary mixing it throughly up and then bottle so each bottle would get the identical amount of new fermentables?

The trick is "mixing it thoroughly". That's harder to do than it sounds, plus it will stir up the sediment at the bottom of the fermenter. So you have to transfer to a bottling bucket first. That's an extra step for it to pick up oxygen -- but I'm sure that can be mitigated by using something like a carboy for bottling and fill it with CO2 first. It's easier for me to bottle straight from the fermenter into bottles with premeasured sugar. If I were bottling 10 gallons or 20 instead of 3 or 4, the calculus might be totally different!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I can't believe folks add individually specific amounts of sugar to individual bottles. That sounds so labor intensive and error prone that maybe I've misread what's happening.

For many people, packaging beer (and cider) is series of trade offs (time, money, flexibility), and not a "graduate to the next level" model of the hobby (moving from bottling to kegging to canning).

Dosing bottles with measured amounts of sugar allows for more precise levels of carbonation. Sugar is cheaper than drops or cubes.

 

[Raptor99]

When you add priming sugar directly to the bottle, how do you mix it? Or is that not necessary?

For many people, packaging beer (and cider) is series of trade offs (time, money, flexibility), and not a "graduate to the next level" model of the hobby (moving from bottling to kegging to canning).

Dosing bottles with measured amounts of sugar allows for more precise levels of carbonation. Sugar is cheaper than drops or cubes.

My current practice is to rack to a larger carboy and disolve the suger in a small amount of boiling water. That makes it easy to mix in once I add it to the carboy.

 

[z-bob]

1) When you add priming sugar directly to the bottle, how do you mix it? Or is that not necessary?

2) My current practice is to rack to a larger carboy and disolve the suger in a small amount of boiling water. That makes it easy to mix in once I add it to the carboy.

1) It's not totally necessary, but usually the next day I gently shake the bottle (just turn it upside down then rightside up a couple of times)
2) How do you know the syrup doesn't just sink to the bottom and stay there?

 

[Raptor99]

@z-bob I stir it thoroughly with a drill mounted stirrer. I also the carbonation level when I open bottles. So far I have not noticed uneven carbonation levels.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

When you add priming sugar directly to the bottle, how do you mix it? Or is that not necessary?

With beer and priming sugar, I don't mix it.

Carbonation drops end up whole at the bottom of the bottle (and dissolve over time).

 

[Maylar]

With sugar cubes and beer, one wants the cube to weigh approximately this:

View attachment 814038​

which works well for many (but not all) styles of beer.

A visual +1 to @mac_1103 for pointing out that these size cubes are available in 2023.

eta: we're in the cider forum. If 2.5 g of sugar is appropriate to carbonate a 12 oz bottle of cider, these cubes are convenient.

Beer, indeed. Do you know what volumes of carb will be attained with a cube? Online calculators say cider is typically 3.0 vols, though I set my keg for 12-13 psi @ 38°F which I think is about 2.5 vols, so I think cider carbed to beer levels is fine.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Beer, indeed. Do you know what volumes of carb will be attained with a cube?

Obviously, it depends on the weight of the cube. 'dots' (see #4) come in two sizes (2.5 g & 4.0 g). I would anticipate that other brands of sugar cubes come in those sizes as well.

 

[mac_1103]

Beer, indeed. Do you know what volumes of carb will be attained with a cube?

Also depends on how much CO2 is dissolved in the cider at the end of fermentation. I don't know why it would be different than beer, but I also don't know why it would be the same.

 

[Maylar]

Also depends on how much CO2 is dissolved in the cider at the end of fermentation. I don't know why it would be different than beer, but I also don't know why it would be the same.

Different, I think, in that most cider makers don't bottle from primary. Most will allow the cider to clear for a while. For me, it's 3 months as I like to oak my ciders.

 

[mac_1103]

Different, I think, in that most cider makers don't bottle from primary. Most will allow the cider to clear for a while. For me, it's 3 months as I like to oak my ciders.

I do wonder about this when I bulk age, but maybe I'm overthinking it. Although the exact amount of dissolved CO2 is going to depend on time, temperature and headspace, I don't think the differences are that big. The carbonation calculator I use for beer uses 0.86 volumes, which I think is a pretty standard assumption. If you're targeting 3 volumes and your assumption for starting level is off by ~30% (which seems unlikely) then your final level will be off by <10%. 2.7 probably isn't noticeably undercarbed and 3.3 probably isn't bottle bomb territory.

 

[Raptor99]

I use the AIO Wine pump for racking. The vacuum pump pulls CO2 out of the cider, so I have found that they end up under carbonated. When I use the vacuum pump, the assumption that the cider has 0.86 volumes before bottling is no longer valid, so I need to add more sugar.