Carbonation chart with TIME component?

[ASantiago]

Is there such a thing as a carbonation chart that also indicates roughly how long it will take to reach the target volumes? Every chart I'm finding out there includes the standard temperature/psi/CO2 volume lookups, but nothing about time.

I'm trying to figure out how long it would take 4.5 gallons of IPA in a corny keg at 38F with 20 PSI of CO2 applied to reach good carbonation, without shaking the keg. More so, I'd like to figure out if 20 PSI is too much, too little, etc, to have carbonation in 3-7 days and if not what PSI would be best.

I'm looking for controlled, repeatable carbonation without overdoing it. Length of time is less important than good results.

Thanks!

 

[Homercidal]

I haven't seen anything like that. You could crank the pressure up to 20-30 and check it every 12 hours (Making sure to purge the excess pressure before pouring a sample) and see how long it takes to get close. Maybe get started building your own chart?

 

[chickypad]

I'm looking for controlled, repeatable carbonation without overdoing it. Length of time is less important than good results.

Then it sounds like you want set and forget - choose the carb level you want for the temp of your keezer and then set it and forget it for 2 wks. No risk of overcarbing. At a week I'm often starting to drink mine, but full carbonation is not there (aiming for about 2.5 vol). If you want fully carbed beer sooner than that you'll have to burst with higher pressure as you described and run the risk of overshooting.

 

[ASantiago]

I haven't seen anything like that. You could crank the pressure up to 20-30 and check it every 12 hours (Making sure to purge the excess pressure before pouring a sample) and see how long it takes to get close. Maybe get started building your own chart?

Then it sounds like you want set and forget - choose the carb level you want for the temp of your keezer and then set it and forget it for 2 wks. No risk of overcarbing. At a week I'm often starting to drink mine, but full carbonation is not there (aiming for about 2.5 vol). If you want fully carbed beer sooner than that you'll have to burst with higher pressure as you described and run the risk of overshooting.

I've been doing "set and forget" for three years, with the occasional "lap dance" to accelerate things, but don't do that anymore. The issue at hand is that the beer lines in my kegerator are not long enough to provide enough resistance so that I can apply a good amount of CO2 pressure to the beer to carbonate it well without having it shoot out of the faucet. Instead, I have to keep the CO2 pressure fairly low, which results in very, very long carbonation times and often not enough for the style. (Yes, I could replace the lines, but it's already fairly tight in there and it's three of them. ).

I'm willing to take the risk of overcarbonation, but want it to be an educated risk. Hence the call for a chart with carb times. I'm doing some experimenting of my own, though. I have a keg of IPA at 38F with 20 psi applied since Saturday (so ~36 hours) and I checked after 24 and then 12, with the intention to continue to check every 12. The beer is already carbonated, so I'm starting to estimate 48 hours or so for decent carbonation at that pressure.

Indeed, the pressure should be turned off, the keg bled, and the connections and picnic tap (in my case) checked for all tight. I learned a hard lesson yesterday when I did none of those things and had beer gushing out all over the place. That was an additional 30 minute clean up job I intend on avoiding in the future.

 

[peterj]

I've been doing "set and forget" for three years, with the occasional "lap dance" to accelerate things, but don't do that anymore. The issue at hand is that the beer lines in my kegerator are not long enough to provide enough resistance so that I can apply a good amount of CO2 pressure to the beer to carbonate it well without having it shoot out of the faucet. Instead, I have to keep the CO2 pressure fairly low, which results in very, very long carbonation times and often not enough for the style. (Yes, I could replace the lines, but it's already fairly tight in there and it's three of them. ).

I'm willing to take the risk of overcarbonation, but want it to be an educated risk. Hence the call for a chart with carb times. I'm doing some experimenting of my own, though. I have a keg of IPA at 38F with 20 psi applied since Saturday (so ~36 hours) and I checked after 24 and then 12, with the intention to continue to check every 12. The beer is already carbonated, so I'm starting to estimate 48 hours or so for decent carbonation at that pressure.

Indeed, the pressure should be turned off, the keg bled, and the connections and picnic tap (in my case) checked for all tight. I learned a hard lesson yesterday when I did none of those things and had beer gushing out all over the place. That was an additional 30 minute clean up job I intend on avoiding in the future.

You really just need to get longer lines. You can just bundle them up to save space. Twist them around like a hose and then tie them up. Even if you do carb it to the right level, once you turn the pressure down low enough to serve you are going to start losing carbonation. Or you can keep it at the correct pressure but then turn it down and bleed the keg every time you want to pour any beer. But I think in the long run, replacing the lines is going to save you a lot of hassle. And beer line is pretty cheap.

As for carbonating quickly, I've found that starting it at 30 psi for about 36-48 hours will give it a good jump start. Then reduce it to the correct pressure on the chart and it should be carbonated correctly in the 3-7 day range you were looking for.

 

[ASantiago]

You really just need to get longer lines.

I agree.

Even if you do carb it to the right level, once you turn the pressure down low enough to serve you are going to start losing carbonation.

You know, my experience has been different. I've tried disconnecting, bleeding the keg, and leaving it without gas for periods of time, but it appears that once that gas is in there, it's a real challenge to get it out. It may be because I'm keeping the beer at the same low temp (~34F). I know, it sounds contradictory to what one would expect.

As for carbonating quickly, I've found that starting it at 30 psi for about 36-48 hours will give it a good jump start. Then reduce it to the correct pressure on the chart and it should be carbonated correctly in the 3-7 day range you were looking for.

This sounds about right. I'm starting at a lower 20 psi out of an abundance of caution until I can gauge the effect. As of a few minutes ago, about 50 hours in, there is carbonation but I can't say the beer is fully carbonated. I'll check again tomorrow morning.

Ultimately, I'll be happy just to get some carbonation in and let "set and forget" do the rest. I figured, if the beer is going to be cold conditioning in the fermentation chamber, why not have it on CO2 as well and save some time?

 

[peterj]

You know, my experience has been different. I've tried disconnecting, bleeding the keg, and leaving it without gas for periods of time, but it appears that once that gas is in there, it's a real challenge to get it out. It may be because I'm keeping the beer at the same low temp (~34F). I know, it sounds contradictory to what one would expect.

Bleeding it once is only going to remove a small amount of gas. It will cause enough CO2 to come out of solution to return the pressure to equilibrium. If you just leave it after bleeding it once then that little bit of CO2 will come out of solution to replace what was in the headspace, and then nothing else will happen. But, if you keep releasing pressure (either by periodically pulling the pressure release valve or by continuing to pull beer out) more and more CO2 will come out of solution to maintain an equilibrium.

Ultimately, I'll be happy just to get some carbonation in and let "set and forget" do the rest. I figured, if the beer is going to be cold conditioning in the fermentation chamber, why not have it on CO2 as well and save some time?

I agree, that's a good idea. Though it does lead me to waste beer sometimes because I constantly want to "test it out" to see if it's ready yet before I should.

 

[ASantiago]

Though it does lead me to waste beer sometimes because I constantly want to "test it out" to see if it's ready yet before I should.

Ha! Exactly. In addition to avoiding over-carbonating, by having some sort of expectation of time I can also avoid the repeated testings, even if they are 12 hours apart.

This morning I checked the beer and found carbonation to be good enough for my first try. Bottom line: 4.5 gallons of IPA in a SS corny keg at 38F with 20 psi of CO2 applied took ~60 hours (2.5 days) to get to "good enough" to put in the kegerator at lower pressure (8 psi) for whatever carbonation is left to do and immediate dispensing (the best part! :rockin.

As I get more experience with this method, I'm hoping to be able to increase or decrease the time to suit each beer style's carbonation level.