Caramel apple cider

[adamjab19]

Mine is going good. I poked my head into the bucket and there appears to have been a huge karausen on it. Left over bubbles from the four gallon mark to the bottom of the lid! Five inches or so. Plus some huge bubbles on the top of the cider. I'm going to let it go for at least another week before checking it and then possibly bottling it then. Still smelling good.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I'm glad everyone kept this thread alive while I was gone Life has kept me super busy lately, and I haven't had much time to brew.

Sadly, this experiment did not work out for me. You can see in one of my earlier posts that I had commented about my cider tasting sour, but shrugged it off because it was still green. Unfortunately, letting it sit hasn't helped any- it's still very sour, and not a good tartness- more like an acidity. It's possible that I had gotten an infection earlier on (as I had a lot of problems with blow off and yeast getting all over the place.) It is also possible that my choice of yeast just didn't mesh with what I was trying to do as well. I had read that some people got good results flavor-wise with the hefe yeast, and I also remember reading some reports of sourness. Heck, even my choice of juice could have been bad...who knows.

It's still sitting in the carboy, but I given up hope on it (I just haven't had the time to dump it yet.) However, I would LOVE to hear how some of the other batches mentioned here have turned out. I still think that a recipe similar to what has been tried here could be really good. If I try it again, I'll probably just use regular apple juice, and maybe a cider yeast or a wine yeast again. Try to keep it simpler. I have a few beers lined up to brew next though, so any 2nd attempts at caramel cider will probably have to wait a bit.

 

[Bopper]

Ok, I'm going to be doing this in the next week or so. I'm going to go with my plan of concentrate and cider, but in different proportions. I'm going to steep 1 pound of crystal 20, and 1 pound of crystal 60, in 2 gallons of water. I'll add enough concentrate to this to get it to "normal" juice concentration, and then top it off with 3 gallons of cider (I'm going to try Musselman's- they sell it at the grocery store near me, and it's the only cider- not juice- which does not have sorbate added to it.) I'll be fermenting this with WLP300 Hefe yeast.

I'm hoping this will turn out well!

My only suggestion is as follows:
If you're going to use cider and a hefe yeast, its definitely not going to be clear. Since this is the case, why dont' you steep the crystal in cider rather than water - pectin haze won't really be a problem since is cloudy anyway.

Either way it will be good. Good luck with it!

 

[adamjab19]

Mine didn't turn out as totally planned. Mine went real dry from 1.055 to 1.006 and tastes like granny smith apples. Wiped out the sweetness totally. I put it in secondary with 1tbls cinnamon, 1tbls nutmeg, 1 cup drown sugar, 1 cup white sugar in about 1 1/2 cups water heated. I am just going to let it sit for a few days before I bottle it. Plus my cider was tart to begin with. Maybe waiting till the end of the season cider for next year and it could start off sweeter. It will be and is good just not sweet.

 

[jezter6]

Why not backsweeten it a little?

Put in unfermentable sugars and/or kill yeasties and add more fermentables.

 

[Tusch]

Adam, I would definitely suggest you back sweeten it, don't forget to stabilize with sorbate and sulfite first. But at 1.006, I wouldn't say it is real dry. Most ciders will drop down below 1.000, and in fact 1.006 would be partly dry to semi-dry.

 

[adamjab19]

Would the two cups sugars be backsweeten? I guess I could throw in some more. I know they are fermentable though. I guess then I could use some chemcials. I guess I could just let it sit in secondary for a few days and run and get the chemicals to fully backsweeten. Can't make it to a homebrew shop until Monday the earliest.
Also what would qualify as a non fermentable sugar?

 

[jezter6]

If it's fermentable - it's not going to backsweeten because the yeasties will just eat it up.

Do some searching, Lactose is one of the more known unfermentables, but there are sure to be others.

 

[Tusch]

Unfermentables: Lactose, splenda, stevia, etc

If you want to use fermentable sugars like cane, corn, honey, maple syrup or anything else, you need to stabilize your cider first. This is done with a dose of both k-metasulfite and sorbate. This will stop yeast reproduction, and assuming your fermentation is complete, will halt a renewed fermentation. After the dosing, I think you are supposed to wait 24 hours (I have yet to backsweeten since I like it dry) then rack your cider in with your sweetening sugar.

I wouldn't guess at how much sugar to add, as you may not add enough or you may make it far to sweet. I would suggest taking out a sample and sweetening that. Then either measure that SG and add enough sugar to get to that SG for the whole batch, or do some math like 1 tablespoon in 5 oz = X cups in 1 gallon.

 

[adamjab19]

Splenda it will be. I can get that on the way home from work tonight. Thank you for the idea.

 

[Tusch]

Be careful with amounts, it can be pretty sweet, and if you don't like it you would want to avoid getting an artificial flavor (I kind of like the artificial taste of diet drinks) Also, be very careful when buying splenda, because some of it is mixed with real sugar, which would make it partially fermentable.

 

[lapaglia]

there are two kinds of Splenda, Dont get the "Blend" its got regular sugar in it too.

 

[jayhuff]

Mine went to 1.006 and I love it. I will do the hefe yeast again.

 

[vapor2020]

I want to add the lactose at bottling like was mentioned in the first post. Would you use that instead of priming sugar? And would it be a direct replacement using the same quantity, or is the lactose in addition to the priming sugar?

Lactose doesn't ferment at all, so you add it in addition to the priming sugar. You use the same amount of priming sugar as you normally would.

 

[adamjab19]

After the addition of the sugars and spices and letting it sit for a week, it was better. Did a little taste testing, math and splenda adding (1.5 cups) and I think it will be really good now. I wanted it sweet for my wife to enjoy and with the spices I think it just turned into my holiday brew!

 

[adamjab19]

Had a first sample today. Pretty damn good. the wife loves it so that's all that matters. Next time I would add brown sugar to the initial boil and let the yeast stop closer to 1.012 or so. The splenda addition is good but seems a little artificial. Hopefully it will get even better closer to thanksgiving.

 

[Firstnten]

I saw someone in here posted they used molasses how much did you use, and how did it come out? Fluid Oz's and solid Oz's vary greatly. I'm considering using it in my next batch any and all info in this regard would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[brewdragon]

Not sure how this would work since I haven't done it personally yet but I got a stout recipe from a friend that uses caramel and chocolate flavorings in the recipe. They add the flavorings after fermentation is complete when the beer is kegged. They recommended the LorAnn Oils Caramel Flavor and Chocolate Flavor. Since this is added at the time of kegging (maybe 1-2 teaspoons) it really wouldn't matter if it had preservatives or anything in it. I assume this could work for cider as well...kind of the easy way out but I still think it would taste good.

 

[adamjab19]

Just alittle update. My cider has to be served really, really cold otherwise band aids...bummer. I think when I rushed through just throwing some sugars and spices in it the first time it started fermenting again, duh, and I took it off too soon. Plus the addition of splenda is sweet. I would do maybe 3/4 cups instead of 1.5 cups for 4 gallons next time.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I was reading through the Mead forum a week or so ago (I've been getting back into brewing, and have been preparing to finally do the raspberry mead/melomel I've been planning on,) and saw a link back to this thread when someone was asking about a caramel cyser I believe. It threw me for a bit of a loop that my old thread turned into a decent source of information It also reminded me that I never went back to try to make a good caramel apple cider, after my first one turned into a failure (I believe now that it was a combination of the base cider being too sour to begin with, and either a minor infection that eventually took over from my leaving the cider in the primary for far too long, or simply a poor choice of yeast- despite others having good results with WLP300.)

Basically, I think I tried to get a little too fancy with my ingredients, so I'm going to go back to some things that I know have worked for me in the past. I am going to use plain apple juice (Motts,) which I used in my original batch of Apfelwein with good results. I may also go with just Crystal 60, as that gave me a nice caramel flavor in the American Amber I brewed last year.

Of course, it can't all be simple I think I am going to try carmelizing some malt extract to add to the cider, as I have read that carmelized malt can give a nice toffee-like flavor to beer (as in Scottish ales.) I'm also going to shy away from using the hefe yeast again. I am looking at two options. If I go back to using a wine yeast, I have a few packs of Cotes Des Blancs which is supposed to be good for fermenting apple musts. Or, if I want to try another ale yeast, I may try S-04 as I have read of some who have had good results with it leaving some residual sweetness and apple aroma.

Either way, I will still be shooting for a lower OG, as I do not want to make this another dry Apfelwein-like drink. The carmelized malt extract will probably be only one pound, and I may just steep the crystal in heated juice for simplicity's sake vs. having to mess around with concentrates of unknown flavor (if the cider is a little cloudy from the heat, then so be it.)

So...

5 gallons Mott's Juice
1lb light DME, dissolved in a small amount of water and boiled down to caramel
1 or two pounds of Crystal 60 (I used two pounds of Crystal before, I may not need so much with the caramelized malt)
Cotes des Blancs or S-04


I'd also be curious to hear back from some of those who may have tried making this and may not have posted their results.

 

[MacBruver]

Interesting... looking forward to hearing your results from the caramelized DME. Sounds cool!

 

[Chaos_Being]

I made Caramel Cider 2.0 this weekend. I used 5 gallons of Mott's Apple Juice (I gallon of which I used to steep my Crystal Malt,) 1.5lb of Crystal 60, and 1lb of Amber DME. The DME I dissolved in a medium sized saucepan full of water, and boiled it for over an hour until it was a nice mahogany colored syrup. It tasted very carmelly, and almost a little roasty (I may have carmelized it a bit too much.) I used S-04 yeast.

The entire concoction is fermenting like mad in my basement now. I'm hoping that it comes out good this time, but I just realized now (far too late) that there may have been another reason that my other batch went sour. I steeped the grains, but never boiled the resulting wort before...and I did the same thing this time. I'm hoping that the sourness I encountered last time wasn't a lacto infection from the grain, becuase if it was...I just did it again. D'oh. Wish me luck!

 

[cimirie]

I'm glad this thread has continued because I've been thinking about this for a little while. I do have one question for everybody, though... Everybody is talking about steeping the grains. Why not mash the grains? Wouldn't mashing bring out more of the flavor and the sugars (both fermentable and not)? Or is the advantage of mashing in this situation only marginally better than steeping so why the extra work?

Any insight would be appreciated and anybody with success story follow ups, we'd love to hear them!

 

[dderemiah]

Chaos, How did the second attempt come out? Was it the lack of boiling the wort make it sour again?

 

[dderemiah]

Chaos, How did the second attempt come out? Was it the lack of boiling the wort make it sour again?

 

[Chaos_Being]

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's what did the 2nd batch in as well. I applied some of my ideas here (mainly the carmelized malt) to a batch of Graff that should be about ready to bottle. So, I'll soon have a comparison batch that actually boiled the wort from the crystal malt, so I should have a solid answer soon.

 

[Behemoth]

Hey Chaos, any updates? Did boiling help?

 

[Chaos_Being]

Thread necro time...

Yes, boiling did the trick all right. The batch of caramel cider/graff with the wort boiled came out great! It has a nice cider taste, a bit tart, but with a slightly sweet/caramelly roundness to the taste that keeps it from being overly sour. It's aged well too, as I still have some bottles (I haven't brewed much for the past year or so...well, make that haven't brewed at all.) I plan on fixing that soon