Canning Homebrew?

[aristurtle]

Jesus guys, they're talking about portable canning systems by WELCOME TO CASK.COM that puts beer in cans...

You know, BEER CANS?

There are threads about that one here, including someone thinking about offering a similar service for homebrewers.

I would definitely be interested in this if the price was reasonable. There are trails that allow cans but not glass bottles, and even brown bottles will skunk after enough exposure, but an opaque can never will.

 

[NineMilBill]

I would definitely be interested in this if the price was reasonable. There are trails that allow cans but not glass bottles, and even brown bottles will skunk after enough exposure, but an opaque can never will.

They have plastic beer bottles too - if you're really concerned about it.

 

[SouthBay]

now the question is, how do you make the canning process (for beer cans, not mason jars) affordable and doable at home without much specialty equipment?

 

[MisterTipsy]

now the question is, how do you make the canning process (for beer cans, not mason jars) affordable and doable at home without much specialty equipment?

Aluminum bottles with screw tops.

No additional equipment required.

 

[emjay]

I think grndslm's made his mind up. Personally, I definitely would like to see the experiment played out in its own thread for documentary reasons. Also, to truly test it - make it be a Hefeweizen carbed to style. I give it 10 days before kaboom. Any takers?

The same guy also made a thread asking what people thought about his idea to whirlpool after transferring to secondary. Dozens of post unanimously told him that it was at best pointless, and at worst would oxidize his beer, leading to cardboard and acetaldehyde flavors. He basically told everybody that we're all wrong, and that it should improve the beer, since "whirlpooling" on top of a priming solution in the bottom of the bottling bucket is a legitimate practice.

He's a new brewer with 6 extract batches under his belt.

And every time somebody rips apart his reasoning, he comes up with a new line of reasoning. Basically, he decided that whirlpooling the secondary must be good, and then looks for reasons why it must be. It's not rational thinking, and he's done nearly the same thing here. Because he's done the same thing multiple times, it's become quite obvious that he is just obsessed with the idea of being personally responsible for innovation or a shift in the brewing paradigm, which is why he stubbornly refuses to accept anything that would take that away from him (ie reality).

Now... he's taken an interesting thread and made it go way off-topic. I'm not saying I should necessarily have the last word on the matter, but let's try to have some respect for the OP and not just shìt all over his thread, k? Grndslm, if you really need to keep discussing the ridiculous topic of bottle conditioning in a jar (which has been pretty concretely dismissed with sound science), just create your own thread instead of highjacking someone else's.

 

[SouthBay]

Now... he's taken an interesting thread and made it go way off-topic. I'm not saying I should necessarily have the last word on the matter, but let's try to have some respect for the OP and not just shìt all over his thread, k? Grndslm, if you really need to keep discussing the ridiculous topic of bottle conditioning in a jar (which has been pretty concretely dismissed with sound science), just create your own thread instead of highjacking someone else's.

i dont mind. its entertaining, really.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

The same guy also made a thread asking what people thought about his idea to whirlpool after transferring to secondary. Dozens of post unanimously told him that it was at best pointless, and at worst would oxidize his beer, leading to cardboard and acetaldehyde flavors. He basically told everybody that we're all wrong, and that it should improve the beer, since "whirlpooling" on top of a priming solution in the bottom of the bottling bucket is a legitimate practice.

He's a new brewer with 6 extract batches under his belt.

And every time somebody rips apart his reasoning, he comes up with a new line of reasoning. Basically, he decided that whirlpooling the secondary must be good, and then looks for reasons why it must be. It's not rational thinking, and he's done nearly the same thing here. Because he's done the same thing multiple times, it's become quite obvious that he is just obsessed with the idea of being personally responsible for innovation or a shift in the brewing paradigm, which is why he stubbornly refuses to accept anything that would take that away from him (ie reality).

Now... he's taken an interesting thread and made it go way off-topic. I'm not saying I should necessarily have the last word on the matter, but let's try to have some respect for the OP and not just shìt all over his thread, k? Grndslm, if you really need to keep discussing the ridiculous topic of bottle conditioning in a jar (which has been pretty concretely dismissed with sound science), just create your own thread instead of highjacking someone else's.

Very well put! I remember seeing the 'whirlpool' thread..... sometimes people amaze me.

Back to the canning thing..... more and more craft breweries are canning their beers, even smaller breweries. Which is great! For many reasons.... for the home brewer, if there's some sort of trickle down effect, as in in the cost of canning decreasing trickling down to a point where it may be feasible for a home brewer or club to invest in canning equipment. Maybe I'm just daydreaming, but it'd be f'n sweet to be able to can.

And to the guy that posted the Miller Lite aluminum bottles..... Well, they're bottles.

 

[SouthBay]

I honestly don't think it'd be too tough to figure out an economical way to can beer. Right now, the canning machine is the prohibitive factor, in how its like a bajillion dollars.

But, homebrewers use a bottle capper and some reused bottles to accomplish the same thing.

So, its all just a matter of designing a single use can for filling and 'capping' in a way that you could do on your kitchen counter with a minimal investment ($15-$20). THATS the part thats been eating me up all day. i know theres a solution to it, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[NineMilBill]

it's become quite obvious that he is just obsessed with the idea of being personally responsible for innovation or a shift in the brewing paradigm, which is why he stubbornly refuses to accept anything that would take that away from him (ie reality)

As personally attacking as this may seem to outsiders - based upon past history, honestly - this is spot on. It almost seems like he's trying to come up with the next "I don't secondary" that goes against the standard, and in-turn becomes the standard. There is legitmate science backing up the contrary. We all know mason jars look cool because people associate them with moonshine, but moonshine is still, not carbonated - and they seal by sucking in - not pushing out.

DROP THE MASON JAR ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait, what? Like I was saying - it's unfortunate that a great discussion of (possibly?) affordable canning became a thread concerning a topic that has been covered in depth otherwise - especially with the scientific curb-stomping that Revvy gave it - removing any logical concept that mason jars would work.

F. Back to my DFH Midas Touch. That was bottled - very effectively.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I honestly don't think it'd be too tough to figure out an economical way to can beer. Right now, the canning machine is the prohibitive factor, in how its like a bajillion dollars.

But, homebrewers use a bottle capper and some reused bottles to accomplish the same thing.

So, its all just a matter of designing a single use can for filling and 'capping' in a way that you could do on your kitchen counter with a minimal investment ($15-$20). THATS the part thats been eating me up all day. i know theres a solution to it, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

You'd think they could come up with a way to do it manually on a small scale. I mean, this can lids are crimped onto the can, not in the same way as a bottle cap, but I bet it could be done.
Us home brewers are a pretty crafty lot, maybe we have some that could come up with something.

 

[SouthBay]

You'd think they could come up with a way to do it manually on a small scale. I mean, this can lids are crimped onto the can, not in the same way as a bottle cap, but I bet it could be done.
Us home brewers are a pretty crafty lot, maybe we have some that could come up with something.

thats exactly what i was thinking. ive even been trying to look at a beer can to figure out how i could do the same thing at home... maybe turning and filling it sideways? crimp the bottom or top on it?

i drank too much to figure it out tonight, though. maybe tomorrow while i'm supposed to be working ....

 

[lgilmore]

to the mason jar guy, again I say, knock yourself out.

But honestly, don't expect others to buy into your idea as most of us want to make good "carbonated" beers. Since we actually understand the two concepts of bottling and canning involve different forms of pressure.

but again knock yourself out, enjoy your beer however flat it may turn out to be.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

thats exactly what i was thinking. ive even been trying to look at a beer can to figure out how i could do the same thing at home... maybe turning and filling it sideways? crimp the bottom or top on it?

i drank too much to figure it out tonight, though. maybe tomorrow while i'm supposed to be working ....

I hear ya! It's something definitely worth thinking about, though. I'm thinking full can tops, with the tab pre sealed, and some sort of 'capper' that allows you to cap the can much the same way as you'd cap a bottle, only something larger diameter. It seems very simple, almost too simple. Maybe someone should communicate with Ball or a company like that who makes a lot of the cans for the brewing industry, see if there's a way individuals and not just breweries can get uncapped cans and separate lids.

Like you, I've had enough beer to not want to do that right now.... more beer tonight, research tomorrow. I'll post back if I find anything worthwhile.

 

[slatkin]

See I don't predict Kaboom, I predict hissssssssssssssss. The co2 is going to pop the seal on the lids and the gas is just going to leak out. And probably not even all that dramatically, as soon as the slightest amount of overpressure happens (probably within 24 hour) the seal is going to break and the gas is just going to ooze out as it is being produced.

You are right. A buddy of mine gave it a try just for kicks with a small sample and every one of the jars outgassed.

 

[SouthBay]

the oversized bottle capper idea was my first thought as well. You'd have to reinforce the top ring of the can so the capper has something to grab onto, or design it to work like a bench capper (rather than a hand capper). My main worry would be the capper crushing the aluminum can while applying the pressure to it.

Another thought would be the lip it would create being uncomfortable to drink with (sharp metal edge to the face). so maybe invert the can, and crimp it on the bottom side? so the real top with the opening you drink out of is pre-sealed to the walls of the can.

And then i saw this thing at work that got me thinking. Old school casks were filled from the side, with a bung to plug the filling hole. Could cans be done the same way, with some type of cap that you stick/crimp/twist onto the side to seal it, then turn the cans upright like normal...

anyways, just some thoughts...

 

[Clanchief]

the oversized bottle capper idea was my first thought as well. You'd have to reinforce the top ring of the can so the capper has something to grab onto, or design it to work like a bench capper (rather than a hand capper). My main worry would be the capper crushing the aluminum can while applying the pressure to it.

Another thought would be the lip it would create being uncomfortable to drink with (sharp metal edge to the face). so maybe invert the can, and crimp it on the bottom side? so the real top with the opening you drink out of is pre-sealed to the walls of the can.

And then i saw this thing at work that got me thinking. Old school casks were filled from the side, with a bung to plug the filling hole. Could cans be done the same way, with some type of cap that you stick/crimp/twist onto the side to seal it, then turn the cans upright like normal...

anyways, just some thoughts...

I agree with the issue of crushing the aluminum can. That would be my main concern. However, sealing from the bottom does seem like a good way to work it. I KNOW we have some engineers on here...Get to work on this!

 

[Revvy]

You'd think they could come up with a way to do it manually on a small scale. I mean, this can lids are crimped onto the can, not in the same way as a bottle cap, but I bet it could be done.
Us home brewers are a pretty crafty lot, maybe we have some that could come up with something.

I've been thinking about this for a few years, something to seal up the existing hole created when you pop the top of the can. Basically you'd remove the pull tab and the circle of metal that opens up and replace something in the hole to seal it.

I though maybe some solid rubber plug that worked like a split ring grommet.

Where you would just wedge it in and it would seal the top and bottom of the lid..

But lately, looking at the kegs I just bought, I'm thinking something like a tini keg lid. What happens with keg lids, is that you basically slip the lid into the hole, and it has a gasket on the top of it, and once it's in place then you pull on the little latch thing which causes the little feet to push down on the top of the keg, which pulls upward on the lid and seals it. But I think the the aluminum on top would be too thin to stand up to the pushing of the feet and latch.

Now if someone uses my ideas, you have to give me a lifetime supply of the little buggers.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

So I went to the Ball website to see what I could find.... not too much, it's mostly geared to commercial applications. But, in their 'contact us' section, there's a contact for 'home canning', now I know that usually means 'canning' in a Ball jar, but I sent an email with some specific questions about canning in cans, capping, and obtaining a small amount of cans and separate lids for some experimentation.
I have a couple ideas along the lines of what I posted last night, and I'd like to have some unsealed cans to see if I can figure out a way to cap them. I have a good friend who's really crafty and a great problem solver when it comes to things like that, so I'm going to bounce my ideas off him and see what he thinks about the feasibility of using something similar to a bench or wing capper to cap a can. There's gotta be a way to do it manually, like the machines in a canning plant, but manually and one can at a time. It's basically the same thing we do with bottles, our cappers aren't too different from the actual capping device on a capping machine, they're just small and manually powered. I'm convinced there's a way we can do the same thing with cans.
Anything I hear or figure out, I'll post back here. If you guys have more ideas, please share, the more brains we have thinking about this, the better.

 

[pjj2ba]

Srsly??

I've gotten the idea to bottle in mason jars from this site once or twice. I'm wondering why it's not MORE common if there's no need for a capper and a "limitless" replacement caps.

Mason jars come in 8, 16, 32, 64 oz jars. Twelve jars for $10 or less???

Oh yea... they're not brown, tho. So leave 'em in box inside two bags, in a closet, in the basement. Then it's all good!!!

I say give it a shot. The big problem is the large surface area of the seal. With a bottle cap it is much smaller. If you could tighten the ring enough, I bet your could get it to seal. Of course then it would be hard to open (and potentially messy). The advantage of a bottle and cap is simplicity and reliability. I'm sure you could get the mason jars to work. It is simple, but getting it to reliably seal would be more difficult.

I don't think that just because they were designed to hold a vacuum that automatically means that they won't also hold pressure instead. The frisbee was originally a pie tin, until someone used it for another purpose

I think the jars are plenty strong. There are some pretty thin beer bottles out there

 

[Kmcogar]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this but here is what your looking for.




I just found the video, now I'm looking for how much it cost and where I can find it. I WANT one!!

 

[NA_Wreckdiver]

I think the "aluminum bottles" would be the most practical way for a home brewer to "can" beer.

For those old enough... think back to the "cone top" cans. The aluminum bottles are just a modern incarnation of that. With screw top lids they'd be the easiest to utilize as well.

The "mini keg lid" Revy suggests, just seem like it'd be expensive, and how would you pressurize to seal it? (like you do a keg).

 

[Hernando]

Mason Jars are for moonshine. BUt i do like the aluminum can bottles

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this but here is what your looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhzFOBGBd8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


I just found the video, now I'm looking for how much it cost and where I can find it. I WANT one!!

DUDE!!! That is awesome!!! I wonder how much something like that runs. Thanks for posting that, let us know if you find anything more out about it.

 

[NA_Wreckdiver]

here... $1500
http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/123001288/soft_drink_can_seamer.html

or maybe this could work??
http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-can-sealers.html

Here ya go!!!
http://www.houseofcans.com/plain-inside-finish.-pour-attached-dia.-11/16-13/16-p-1859-l-en.html

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

here... $1500
http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/123001288/soft_drink_can_seamer.html

or maybe this could work??
http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-can-sealers.html

Somebody buy this man a beer!!! Thanks, bro!

 

[NA_Wreckdiver]

check the last one I added... THAT is the ticket!

 

[GarageDweller]

Sweet, but i noticed it says "These cans are not food grade".
anyone tried this before, with the cans from the 3rd link?
Not sure if it matters whether its food grade if you sanitize well. Seems like it would be fine as long as its aluminum. Hell if i know...

 

[mb82]

Sweet, but i noticed it says "These cans are not food grade".
anyone tried this before, with the cans from the 3rd link?
Not sure if it matters whether its food grade if you sanitize well. Seems like it would be fine as long as its aluminum. Hell if i know...

I would expect the problem is the inside does not have the varnish they put on the inside of Al cans to keep the contents from leaching the Aluminum.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

check the last one I added... THAT is the ticket!

You sir, just made my day! Like another poster said, I'm guessing 'not food grade' means they don't have the lining that modern beer and soda cans do. The stuff that keeps things from leeching aluminum out of the can..... but..... if they make non food grade cans like that, they gotta make food grade. The video posted above showed a guy canning his homebrew in what appeared to be Ball can blanks, and Ball cans are food grade. That's what many many breweries can in.
I still haven't heard back from the Ball home canning rep I emailed this morning, but one of the things I asked is how an individual can get Ball cans and separate tops.... hopefully I'll hear something soon.

 

[Proboscidea]

I love that there is actually a business in the world called "House of Cans, Inc."