Can this be done?

[rambler]

I threw out a thread in the DIY section and wasnt really getting all the answers i needed so i figured i'd open this one up and throw it out there.

The gist of it is: I want to build a 2bbl (yes I mean 2 barrels) and it looks like the most efficient way to accomplish the boil would be electrically. The only problem I have is that i know next to nothing about electricity, other than it's not forgiving at all.

Near as i can tell in order to accomplish a good boil in 60+ gallons of liquid i would have to use at least 3 5500w elements, and that all three of those elements would need individual 240v outlets. Is this correct? If so i need to figure this into my shop wiring plans.

Right now im figuring out the wirng to my shop which only requires power be run from the house to the shop. If i am to install the 240v sockets i will probably have to install 200 amp svc at the street (its only 100 now), and add the necessary breaker at the house, right?

I looked over some of the RIMS control box setups, and that just about fried my brain. I wouldn't need anything that complicated. I would just use the electricity for the heating elements and 1 pump to transfer from the MT to the kettle.

So my questions are: Do i need to wire 3 individual 240v sockets into the shop. The breaker box in the shop has a couple empty 40 amp breakers, are these big enough to handle the current? and what kind of controls would be necessary?

 

[Wberry]

Rambler you have some loaded questions that are ripe for a bunch of different opinions.

Upping your service can go 50/50 on easy and cheap or complicated and really expensive. You will likely need to replace your homes main panel and your electrician will likely install a sub panel in your shop (depends on physical layout of your house/shop).

I would lean, on the electrical design side, toward a single larger breaker and connection (think Hubble or look at EPIC/Harting plugs for easy to wire connectors over 30A and 4 conductor) for your rig. I would then build the branch circuits in the rigs control box to handle the elements and pump.
Alternately, you could find a 240V pump and install a DC PS supply circuit to run pilot lights and relays - thereby getting away with only needing 3 wires (no neutral).

 

[rambler]

There is already a subpanel installed in the shop. As to the breaker box at the house I will have to check. When we first moved into the house the wife fried the breaker at the street( long story) and i replaced it. I have a friend profficient in electicity and will have him double check me about the breaker box at the house.

The shop is already wired with a ton of outlets. Its kinda weird that he never finished the actual connection to the grid, so that makes me a bit nervous. It very well could be an issue withe the house BB which would have stopped him. The BB in the shop is about three times the size of the box on the house.

 

[Sparky]

Rambler, need a couple clarifications. Confused about which/where is your 100amps...
- What is the amps to your house (the main feed)?
- What is the amps to your sub-panel?
- Is your service (the main utility feed) overhead or underground?

The main reason why your previous owner never upgraded is $$$.

 

[rambler]

1-100 amps to the house
2-0 amps to the subpanel in the shop, that is why I'm trying to figure all of this out now. I want to run enough power to fuel this beast while wiring the shop to the house.
3-underground

 

[rambler]

Ok i just checked the breaker box at the street and at the house. Both are 100 amps. So i should be able to switch the breaker at the street to 200 and split 100 off for the shop. Correct?

Once thats wired in i can put in the 3 240 volt lines to feed the elements.

I have a ton of room left on the breaker box in the shop. I counted the the open breakers and here is what i've got.
2-15 amp single poles
7-20 amp single poles
2-30 amp doubles
1-30 amp single
1-40 amp double
8 empty slots to hold more breakers
Like i said, i have a ton of room left on the box. Obviously I'm limited to 100 amps in the shop and my question is: Would there be enough juice from the 100 amps to run 3 5500watt elements w/o pushing my limits? Could i run 3 240 volt sockets AT THE SAME TIME and not kill myself or burn my shop down and fry my house?

 

[Ranger9913]

I wouldn't think of it in terms of "how many 240 outlets" but in terms of "how many 30A circuits". I think you would have to run a 4/3 wire to be able to run 90A's at a time which would be damn expensive. I'm not an electrician but I think your best bet would be to run 3-10/3 lines out to your sub panel and use 3 dedicated 30A circuits. You could possible use another 15A circuit to run lights, outlets, and pumps ect.

That being said I can easily boil 35 gallons with 2-5500 watt elements with one of them at 100% and the other at 70%. You could possible boil 60 gallons with just two elements if you had a properly insulated kettle.


Also, 2BBL brewing is more than just getting 60 gallons up to boil for an hour. Do you have mash tun for a +100lbs of grain? How are you going to heat strike water and sparge water? How are you going to ferment and control temps. What pump are you using? A march 809 will take you 45mins at least to transfer 60 gallons 10ft to your fermenter.

 

[rambler]

I actually started out on another thread in the DIY forum. I would link to it but i cant figure out how to.

I posted in the other thread more of my plans. I actually have three 80 gallon tanks.
One is just a plain tank. This would be for my MLT. The other two have a 3/4 ss heat exchangers built in. I have a commercial tankless water heater to heat up the water with. It maxes out at 185 deg water at 6 gal/minute.

So really the only problem i have left to figure out is the kettle. I am planning on fermenting in the tanks with heat exchangers. The tanks have 1 inch drains, which should work well to drain the cold break material out after cooling and between the elements and the heat exchangers i should be able to control the temps fairly easily. I have the stuff to build a small glycol chiller also

 

[P-J]

I strongly suggest that you call an electrician and have him map out a solution for your intended setup.

Some things that matter that you did not disclose:
Breaker box at the street? What is that?
The shop - How is the intended cable run to be accomplished? Is the shop an independent structure or attached to the house like a typical garage? If it is an separate building, is the cable going to be overhead or under ground?

Many more questions but your description does not describe your setup in a way that adequate advice can be given.

IMHO - call an electrician and have him advise you. You are in this way over your head. IMHO.

No bad vibes on your intended plan, just want you to be safe and within proper code and safety rules.

 

[rambler]

I'm absolutely in over my head! Thats why I'm here, and a few other places as well. I've got an electronics guru and a journeyman electrician friend who will be in on this. But these guys know nothing about brewing and this seems to be the place for info on that side of things.

To answer your questions, when i say the box at the street i mean where i tie in to the grid. I live in a pretty rural are so all the electrical wires are buried and tied into when the house is built. They are setup for 200 amp svc but some homeowners only pull 100. I can safely pull 200 from there. My house is kind of a fluke with only 100, its just a matter of adding a breaker.

I intend to bury the cable from the box to the shop, which is detached from the house. I have 165 feet of ground between the box and the shop. I already had plans in the works to run the power to the shop this summer and decided that I should just incorporate the big system in while i was at it. Even if i dont use the big system i can use the 240v outlets for the welder and air compressor.

I am definitely going to be as careful and thorough as i can here. I know this idea sounds absolutely crazy, but absolutely worth it if i can pull it off.

 

[Sparky]

Rambler,
You are getting a couple ?? feedback since we are trying to hon in on what you have and what you want to do. Per P-J, get in your buddy to give you an assessment on your electrical. They don't need to be homebrewers, BUT, they will need to know the scope of work.
From a 10,000 level, looks like you MAY need a 200 amp meter/main with distribution with trenching for your sub panel. Install a 100-125 amp sub in the back area for your brew area. Run a 1 1/2 conduit with 2 gage or 1/0 gage to that panel, 18" MINIMUM depth on that trench.
Let us know if you need more info.....

 

[Lucky_Chicken]

I know this is old.... but I was wondering if you ever got this work done, if you are still doing this, or if you decided to go another route?

I am interested as I am planning a similar project 2bbl electric in the future (distant future)

 

[rambler]

Wow, this is already a year old. Time flys when your workin your arse off I guess. You still interested in knowing the progress?