Can one use too much mash water?

[zephaniahsw]

I used 1.5 quarts per pound of grain yesterday for a blonde ale. I've read that most use between 1 and 1.25 qts per pound and it got me wondering whether its possible to use too much water for mashing.

Does anyone know if it is possible to use too much water (e.g detrimental) to mash, and if so, why?

 

[Qhrumphf]

1 quart per pound is a very thick mash. I'll sometimes mash in that thick for a protein rest or other low temp rest, if I plan on adding extra infusions to bring the temp up later. Usually for single infusion, I go anywhere from 1.25 qt/lb for something like a Barleywine up to 1.5-1.75 qts/lb for session beers (Ordinary Bitter, Mild, 60/-, etc). For my "average" to moderately high gravity beers, I'm usually around 1.35 qt/lb. Some BIAB brewers doing the no-sparge method use the entirety of the water they need in the mash. I'm guessing that goes upwards of 3-4 quarts per pound depending on the beer, without issue. So 1.5 quarts per pound is far from exceeding an acceptable mash thickness.

 

[Evan_L]

The upper limit i believe is about 2qt/lb. Above this you will get incomplete conversion of starches. Don't quote me on this but IIRC when the mash is too thick, it lacks the fluidity needed for the enzymes to move around and when it is too thin, the enzymes have a hard time finding the starches because the mash is so dilute. Mash thickness also impacts a few other variables but i'll leave that for someone else to chime in on, I have a bad habit of trying to absorb too much info about every brewing topic and then when it comes time to apply it or regurgitate it, I mix it all up and don't remember anything.

 

[Zoidberg]

I've also read about the ph being too high or low based on mash thickness. The grain lowers the ph of the water so less grains per gallon could mean a higher ph. While it will still may make conversion, the results could be less favorable.

Additionally, as Evan said, if the mash is too thin, the starches and enzymes might have a harder time finding each other and conversion could still take place but may take longer.

 

[The_Bishop]

The incomplete conversion in thin mashes is a myth/incorrect. Plenty of people BIAB, which involves mashing in your total water volume. No problems with conversion on the 3-4 brews I've done BIAB.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The incomplete conversion in thin mashes is a myth/incorrect. Plenty of people BIAB, which involves mashing in your total water volume. No problems with conversion on the 3-4 brews I've done BIAB.

What little I've read (I never mash that thin, so I've never looked into it further) is that there shouldn't be an issue with complete conversion, just that it might take a little longer. As such, were I doing a full volume mash like that, I'd probably mash 90 minutes as standard practice. Of course, I'll readily defer to the guys who actually use the process.

 

[CrystalShip]

I usually mash at about 2qt/lb and get efficiency somewhere around 77-80% Mash thickness definitely changes the activity level of the enzymes in the mash. At around 2qt/lb or more, conversion may take a bit longer to complete and will result in a highly fermentable wort. I do love me a crisp, dry beer!

Thicker mash and higher temps, with a shorter mash time favor the alpha-amylase enzyme resulting in a less fermentable wort and a beer with more fullness and body.

Thinner mash and lower temps, with a longer mash time favor the beta-amylase enzyme resulting in a more fermentable wort and a beer with more dryness and less body.

 

[zephaniahsw]

I'm just curious, because I noticed a drop in efficiency with increase in mash water. I tried a stout at 1qt/lb @152 but only got a 1.056 ~70% efficiency. Then the blonde ale 1.5 qts/lb @150 and only got ~60% efficiency. Both were mashed an hour with same water.

I was just wondering if there was a correlation with mash volume and efficiency. But then again, there is a lot of differences in just the recipe itself...and I should have mashed longer I guess.

 

[TUCK]

I'm just curious, because I noticed a drop in efficiency with increase in mash water. I tried a stout at 1qt/lb @152 but only got a 1.056 ~70% efficiency. Then the blonde ale 1.5 qts/lb @150 and only got ~60% efficiency. Both were mashed an hour with same water.

I was just wondering if there was a correlation with mash volume and efficiency. But then again, there is a lot of differences in just the recipe itself...and I should have mashed longer I guess.

Maybe this will help....helped me a while back.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/564