Can microbes sour a beer with a gravity of 1.000?

[guiriguiri]

Less than a month ago, I brewed a golden sour trying the low mash temp Jolly Pumpkin technique described in American Sours. My worth's OG was 1.050. I pitched Safale-05 WL All the Brett, Wyeast pedio, and dregs from JP Rojo (with a small but funky/acidic smelly starter) and from Bam Biere. 3 weeks later, my gravity is at 1.000. Obviously, it's not sour or funky yet. I know brett can work without much in the way of sugars to chew on but what about the bugs? Anybody ever run into this?

 

[RPh_Guy]

What IBU? How much was late addition?

Did you add any Lacto? What temperature was the fermentation?

 

[guiriguiri]

15 IBU. 5g Magnum at 60 minutes, 12g Sterling at 15.

No lacto beyond the JP dregs.

Fermented 5 days @ ~67, raised to ~73 for 3 days, then once primary had largely completed, it came upstairs to 79-81 degrees.

I know the pedio/lacto dregs can sour at 15 IBU. I'm just concerned that at 1.000, they won't have anything to chew on.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It should still get sour and funky eventually. Keeping it around 80 will definitely help. RDWHAHB

My suggestion would be to taste at 4-12 months. Add some maltodextrin if it's not getting sour or funky enough. The Sacc cell count should be greatly reduced by that time. Around 0.25-0.5 lbs is probably a good starting point.
More dregs might help too if you have them.

Alternately, blending is an option.

Cheers

 

[guiriguiri]

Update: 2 months later/3 months after brewing, the pH has dropped from 3.92 to 3.49, so yes, the souring agents can work their magic with next to no fuel.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Nice, tasting good?

Curious, what was your mash temp(s)?

 

[guiriguiri]

Not bad (for 80+ degree flat beer)! It's a little plain yet as it's low IBU, Safale-5 and the brett hasn't started to assert itself yet.

I do BIAB and mashed this one at 147-148.

 

[bernardsmith]

Update: 2 months later/3 months after brewing, the pH has dropped from 3.92 to 3.49, so yes, the souring agents can work their magic with next to no fuel.

I know that this must seem to many counter-intuitive but a beer or wine with a gravity of 1.000 MUST have something in it to raise the gravity to that level. Sure, pure water has a gravity of 1.000 but the gravity of alcohol is less than water, so any mixture of water and alcohol, in this case, beer, with a gravity of 1.000 must have SOMETHING else in it to keep the gravity so high and that something will include complex sugars. Brut dry wines can be at .994 and those wines still have some sugars in them.

 

[guiriguiri]

About a month ago, I bottled tart saison that fermented for a total of 3 months with dregs from one bottle of Crooked Stave Vielle added as the only souring agent 1 month in. Even at 32 IBUs, that one bottle dropped the pH down to 3.5 in 1 month and 3.4 in 2 months. Probably the best beer I've ever made.