Calculations indicate I'm getting a consistent BrewHouse efficiency of 75%
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learning i need to sparge slow, knocked mine from 62% to 80's.....ph helps...now with store bought malt i have gotten 95% with a two step 150f->162f mash...one for beta, and the other for alpha, but can't say what the FG would be because i use gluco in everything....(and yeah, everyone would say i don't calc right. so i'd finish by saying i weighed out 20lb's of pale ale malt, ended with 10 gal's of 1.067 OG wort...you tell me what you get)
With my home malt which is very inconsistent, i get between 78%-~85%....seems to depend on how long i let the acrospires get...
With my home malt which is very inconsistent, i get between 78%-~85%....seems to depend on how long i let the acrospires get...
I always do a single step mash and a single sparge.
i fly sparge...don't have a HLT just a plastic fermenter that i scoop water out of and dump onto of the grain with a colander on top of it....
But even batch sparging...can you draw off some liquor and bring to boil and add back to the mash to ramp up temp? it's how i do it...shoot for 160f-162f for a second step for 30 min...before the sparge...
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
A lot depends upon specifically what you are defining and quantifying as "brewhouse efficiency", as well as what type of beer(s) give you the 75% efficiency figure. There are so many different efficiencies, and so many ways to derive them, that the entire subject has an air of subjectivity to it.
Need way more information to say whether or not your 75% is good or bad.
First, brewhouse efficiency is a lousy metric to compare, as it depends too much on equipment volume losses post boil, and whether you dump trub in the fermenter or leave it in the BK.
If you have 85% mash efficiency, 6.25 gal post-boil volume, leave "all" the trub in the BK netting 5.25 gal in the fermenter, then your BH efficiency is 85% * 5.25 / 6.25 = 71.4%. On the other hand, if you dump most everything in the fermenter, leaving behind only 1 qt of trub, then BH efficiency is 85% * 6.0 / 6.2 5 = 78.5%. Both cases are likely to net about 5 gal kegged/bottled. The only difference is whether you account for the trub losses before or after fermentation.
The best metric to determine the goodness of your process is mash efficiency (or "to kettle" efficiency.)
Lauter efficiency is a measure of how well you extract the sugar created in the mash from the grain mass and MLT. Lauter efficiency is 100% - percent of sugar left in grain/MLT. Lauter efficiency can be calculated after you calculate your conversion efficiency and mash efficiency (using your favorite brew software.)
Lauter efficiency varies with the sparge process you use, and the ratio of grain bill weight to pre-boil volume (higher OG beers have lower efficiency, all else being equal.) The following chart shows the maximum possible lauter efficiency for batch sparging using 0 - 3 sparge steps, for two different grain absorption rates. 0.12 gal/lb is typical for traditional MLT's, and 0.06 is for a fairly aggressive squeeze when doing BIAB. All cases assume zero undrainable MLT volume. If there is any undrainable volume, it will act like additional grain absorption, lowering lauter efficiency. A very well conducted fly sparge can achieve a lauter efficiency slightly higher than the 3 batch sparge case @ 0.12 gal/lb (top solid line on chart.) If you are getting lower lauter efficiencies than shown in the chart you need to look at your lautering process for improvement. If your fly sparge isn't doing better than the orange (second from bottom) solid line, then you are wasting your time fly sparging ('cause your fly sparge process is poor.) It's much easier to conduct an optimal batch sparge than an optimal fly sparge.
Using the information in this post, you can determine how your efficiency compares to what you could/should be getting. You can also isolate the part of your process (mash, lauter, transfer) that is causing your efficiency to be less than optimal.
Brew on
First, brewhouse efficiency is a lousy metric to compare, as it depends too much on equipment volume losses post boil, and whether you dump trub in the fermenter or leave it in the BK.
BrewHouse Efficiency = Mash Efficiency * Fermenter Volume / Post-Boil Volume
If you have 85% mash efficiency, 6.25 gal post-boil volume, leave "all" the trub in the BK netting 5.25 gal in the fermenter, then your BH efficiency is 85% * 5.25 / 6.25 = 71.4%. On the other hand, if you dump most everything in the fermenter, leaving behind only 1 qt of trub, then BH efficiency is 85% * 6.0 / 6.2 5 = 78.5%. Both cases are likely to net about 5 gal kegged/bottled. The only difference is whether you account for the trub losses before or after fermentation.
The best metric to determine the goodness of your process is mash efficiency (or "to kettle" efficiency.)
Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter Efficiency
Conversion efficiency is a measure of how much of the potential sugar in the grain is actually created in the mash. Conversion efficiency can be as high as 100%, and above 95% is good. You can calculate your conversion efficiency from the mash thickness and SG of the wort in the MLT at the end of the mash (before any additional water is added.) If your conversion efficiency is low, then the best thing you can do is crush finer. Longer mash time will also help, but crush is the big variable. pH and/or temp, if way off, can also reduce conversion efficiency.
Lauter efficiency is a measure of how well you extract the sugar created in the mash from the grain mass and MLT. Lauter efficiency is 100% - percent of sugar left in grain/MLT. Lauter efficiency can be calculated after you calculate your conversion efficiency and mash efficiency (using your favorite brew software.)
Lauter Efficiency = Mash Efficiency / Conversion Efficiency
Lauter efficiency varies with the sparge process you use, and the ratio of grain bill weight to pre-boil volume (higher OG beers have lower efficiency, all else being equal.) The following chart shows the maximum possible lauter efficiency for batch sparging using 0 - 3 sparge steps, for two different grain absorption rates. 0.12 gal/lb is typical for traditional MLT's, and 0.06 is for a fairly aggressive squeeze when doing BIAB. All cases assume zero undrainable MLT volume. If there is any undrainable volume, it will act like additional grain absorption, lowering lauter efficiency. A very well conducted fly sparge can achieve a lauter efficiency slightly higher than the 3 batch sparge case @ 0.12 gal/lb (top solid line on chart.) If you are getting lower lauter efficiencies than shown in the chart you need to look at your lautering process for improvement. If your fly sparge isn't doing better than the orange (second from bottom) solid line, then you are wasting your time fly sparging ('cause your fly sparge process is poor.) It's much easier to conduct an optimal batch sparge than an optimal fly sparge.
Using the information in this post, you can determine how your efficiency compares to what you could/should be getting. You can also isolate the part of your process (mash, lauter, transfer) that is causing your efficiency to be less than optimal.
Brew on
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I'm using BeerSmith to calculate it for me. I'm usually making beers in the ~1.06 range.
You're right, probably not much at all and may not even be worth the hassle.
i do enjoy shaving a few cents off the price of a twelve pack
edit: and this reminds me of my "missed my protein temp" thread! lol
Need way more information to say whether or not your 75% is good or bad.
First, brewhouse efficiency is a lousy metric to compare, as it depends too much on equipment volume losses post boil, and whether you dump trub in the fermenter or leave it in the BK.
BrewHouse Efficiency = Mash Efficiency * Fermenter Volume / Post-Boil Volume
If you have 85% mash efficiency, 6.25 gal post-boil volume, leave "all" the trub in the BK netting 5.25 gal in the fermenter, then your BH efficiency is 85% * 5.25 / 6.25 = 71.4%. On the other hand, if you dump most everything in the fermenter, leaving behind only 1 qt of trub, then BH efficiency is 85% * 6.0 / 6.2 5 = 78.5%. Both cases are likely to net about 5 gal kegged/bottled. The only difference is whether you account for the trub losses before or after fermentation.
The best metric to determine the goodness of your process is mash efficiency (or "to kettle" efficiency.)
Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter EfficiencyConversion efficiency is a measure of how much of the potential sugar in the grain is actually created in the mash. Conversion efficiency can be as high as 100%, and above 95% is good. You can calculate your conversion efficiency from the mash thickness and SG of the wort in the MLT at the end of the mash (before any additional water is added.) If your conversion efficiency is low, then the best thing you can do is crush finer. Longer mash time will also help, but crush is the big variable. pH and/or temp, if way off, can also reduce conversion efficiency.
Lauter efficiency is a measure of how well you extract the sugar created in the mash from the grain mass and MLT. Lauter efficiency is 100% - percent of sugar left in grain/MLT. Lauter efficiency can be calculated after you calculate your conversion efficiency and mash efficiency (using your favorite brew software.)
Lauter Efficiency = Mash Efficiency / Conversion Efficiency
Lauter efficiency varies with the sparge process you use, and the ratio of grain bill weight to pre-boil volume (higher OG beers have lower efficiency, all else being equal.) The following chart shows the maximum possible lauter efficiency for batch sparging using 0 - 3 sparge steps, for two different grain absorption rates. 0.12 gal/lb is typical for traditional MLT's, and 0.06 is for a fairly aggressive squeeze when doing BIAB. All cases assume zero undrainable MLT volume. If there is any undrainable volume, it will act like additional grain absorption, lowering lauter efficiency. A very well conducted fly sparge can achieve a lauter efficiency slightly higher than the 3 batch sparge case @ 0.12 gal/lb (top solid line on chart.) If you are getting lower lauter efficiencies than shown in the chart you need to look at your lautering process for improvement. If your fly sparge isn't doing better than the orange (second from bottom) solid line, then you are wasting your time fly sparging ('cause your fly sparge process is poor.) It's much easier to conduct an optimal batch sparge than an optimal fly sparge.
View attachment 604156
Using the information in this post, you can determine how your efficiency compares to what you could/should be getting. You can also isolate the part of your process (mash, lauter, transfer) that is causing your efficiency to be less than optimal.
Brew on
Thanks for sharing all of this info! This is how I determined the 75% BH eff:
I dump everything from the kettle into the fermentor. Then I take an SG reading of the wort and note the total volume in the fermentor. Then I go into BeerSmith and enter the volume in the "batch size" field (usually 5.5) and then adjust the BH efficiency until the "Est Original Gravity" calculation matches the SG that I measured.
I think next time I am going to pour everything from the kettle into the fermentor through a brain bag or something to remove all the trub.
i do enjoy shaving a few cents off the price of a twelve pack
edit: and this reminds me of my "missed my protein temp" thread! lol
hahahaha
same way i do it, pretty much...and similarly i just punched the difference between 75% and 95% into beersmith and, it saves me about 55 cents a twelve pack...or would if i was spending 1.2 a pound on base malt...
i malt my own so.....i only spend about 30 cents a pound.... 5 extra pounds wouldn't matter much...
you know to out do me, you're going to have to get the alert with the nostalgic AOL tone in your head saying " You've Been Moved!"...with a mod shaking their head, what i'm dealing with.. a bunch of drunks!
I just played around with BeerSmith and entered 95% BHE and dropped my base malt down until I hit the estimated OG to see what I would have saved. It ended up calculating a savings of 2.5 lbs, or $2.70. I'll try crushing finer next time.
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keep it real, ok...
even though 'consistent' 75% is what most people consider ideal...i would try the two step mash, and i do 10 gal batches so 2.5 sounds right for a 5'r....
and hell that makes it 60 cents a twelver you'd save.....
even though 'consistent' 75% is what most people consider ideal...i would try the two step mash, and i do 10 gal batches so 2.5 sounds right for a 5'r....
and hell that makes it 60 cents a twelver you'd save.....
I'm assuming the 5.25 gal example you're using is wort only. If I include 1 qt of trub, that would be 5.50 gal (wort + trub), then the efficiency should be the same, right? What am I missing?
keep it real, ok...
even though 'consistent' 75% is what most people consider ideal...i would try the two step mash, and i do 10 gal batches so 2.5 sounds right for a 5'r....
and hell that makes it 60 cents a twelver you'd save.....
Yeah, good idea. Next time I'll try a two-step mash and see what that does for me. How long do you mash for in the second step?
Brewhouse efficiency is a mostly useless metric and I wouldn't worry about it too much. The figures that matter most are mash/lauter efficiency that makes it into the kettle (controls gravity) and packaged efficiency (final volume).
If you pour extra trub from the kettle into your fermenter, your "brewhouse efficiency" will go up, but you'll have to leave it behind in the fermenter when you package, and what you ultimately package won't significantly change.
Pouring it all is easier for sure. But don't think the increased "brewhouse efficiency" is particularly meaningful.
If you pour extra trub from the kettle into your fermenter, your "brewhouse efficiency" will go up, but you'll have to leave it behind in the fermenter when you package, and what you ultimately package won't significantly change.
Pouring it all is easier for sure. But don't think the increased "brewhouse efficiency" is particularly meaningful.
Not sure how brewhouse efficiency goes up when there is more trub in the wort. Sure, fermentor volume will up with the additional trub, but you can't package the trub.
That's my point.
If you're not separating them out, you're not getting a real measurement of brewhouse efficiency.
Four measurable key efficiency points:
-conversion at end of mash, read by mash gravity (I read at end of vorlauf before runoff), should be near 100% or can be improved
-lauter (or mash depending on who you ask), read by gravity once you're at preboil volume
-brewhouse, factoring in volume that makes it to fermenter
-packaged, factoring losses to yeast, gravity samples, etc.
If your lauter efficiency is high and your brewhouse low for non-heavily hopped beers, then you're losing more than you should.
75% actual brewhouse efficiency is good, especially for homebrew, particularly if you're brewing beers with a heavy hop load.
Look back at the definition of BrewHouse efficiency in this post. Post-boil volume is the wort plus all the trub in the BK. If you leave the trub in the BK, your fermenter volume will be less than if you dump all the trub (plus wort) into the fermenter. Lower fermenter volume gives lower BrewHouse efficiency for the same post-boil volume. As noted previously, the higher brewhouse efficiency is illusory, as you lose the volume of the trub when you package.
Brew on
This. I, personally, take measurement at the gravity achieved at my post-boil volume. In my case, 13 gallons. That's the extract I was able to achieve with my inputs and process. Given that, I have a 90% efficiency.
There are all kinds of losses from there - dead spaces, pump losses, line losses. That gives me about 11.5 gallons into the fermentor. If I used this as my efficiency marker, it would be much lower.
HTH1975
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The exact same way I do it. I’d like a sparge arm at some stage, but not in a hurry as the collinder method works fine.
I do have a HLT though.
Another point to bring up that hasn't been:
Higher efficiency saves you money, that's about it. Once you get to a point (in the 90%+ range where a few of us are) that's at the expense of flavor. If you're good, you won't get off flavors per se, but you won't get the same malt depth you would using more grain at a lower efficiency to reach the same gravity. If you're not careful, real easy to get off-flavors and astringency sparging to that level.
My typical numbers, 99%+ conversion, 93% into kettle, 88% brewhouse, 78% packaged (for moderate gravity and moderate hop load, like an old school APA). I routinely sparge to about 1°P, a far cry below the 3°P limit below which is considered "over sparging" in homebrew lore. Meticulous pH and temp control keep off flavors on check.
Higher efficiency saves you money, that's about it. Once you get to a point (in the 90%+ range where a few of us are) that's at the expense of flavor. If you're good, you won't get off flavors per se, but you won't get the same malt depth you would using more grain at a lower efficiency to reach the same gravity. If you're not careful, real easy to get off-flavors and astringency sparging to that level.
My typical numbers, 99%+ conversion, 93% into kettle, 88% brewhouse, 78% packaged (for moderate gravity and moderate hop load, like an old school APA). I routinely sparge to about 1°P, a far cry below the 3°P limit below which is considered "over sparging" in homebrew lore. Meticulous pH and temp control keep off flavors on check.
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