Building a new Belgian Blonde... Need Input

[deek76]

Laura's Belgian Blone

Style: Belgian Blond Ale
Type: Extract Calories: 271
Rating: 3.5 Efficiency: 70 %
IBU's: 28.75 Boil Size: 5.83 Gal
Color:*** 7.1 SRM** Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
Boil Time: 60 minutes
Estimated Actual
Brew Date: - 08/14/2011
OG: 1.083 1.083
FG: 1.021 1.021
ABV: 8.12 % 8.12 %
Serve Date: 09/11/2011 / /
*
Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp Estimated Actual
Primary 7 days @ 68.0°F 08/14/2011 08/14/2011
Secondary 7 days @ 72.0°F 08/21/2011 -
Bottle/Keg 14 days @ 74.0°F 08/28/2011 -
*
Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
4.00 ozs 2.17 % Aromatic Malt 60 mins 1.036
4.00 ozs 2.17 % Wheat, Flaked 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Candi Sugar, Clear 60 mins 1.036
7.00 lbs 60.87 % Pilsner Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Wheat Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Honey 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Brown Sugar, Light 60 mins 1.046
*
Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.50 ozs 23.05 Styrian Goldings 60 mins 5.40
0.50 ozs 5.69 Saaz 60 mins 4.00
*
Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale Wyeast Labs (null)
*
Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 tsp Paradise Seeds 15 mins Boil
1.00 tsp Coriander Seed 15 mins Boil
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 15 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter 15 mins Boil
0.75 oz Lemon 15 mins Boil
1.00 oz Ginger Root, Crystalized Ginger 15 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 05 mins Boil
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed 05 mins Boil
*
Mash Profile
(none)
*
Carbonation
Amount Type Beer Temp CO2 Vols
3.73 oz Corn Sugar - Bottle Carbonation, Priming Sugar 72.0°F 2.20
*
Notes
*
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[beergolf]

Looks pretty good. I love blondes.

If it was my brew i would not use the brown sugar, but just plain white sugar.

I would probably back off the spicing some also. It seems a little heavy handed. i prefer light spicing. I do one that I just use 1 tsp coriander and 1/2 oz bitter orange peel. The flavor of the spice is there but not in your face.

But it is your brew so do what you think you would like.

 

[Calder]

My comments; do with them what you want:

1) Drop the wheat malt and the aromatic. It's only 4 ozs of each and if you don't mash, they don't add any sugars and could add haze. You have wheat LME in there anyway.

2) 1 lb candi sugar, 1 lb honey, and 1 lb sugar = 26% of the fermentables. That's too much. Cut it down to about 10% (maybe 15% max since it's a Belgian). I'd suggest going with just the candi-sugar, and if you want more, use white table sugar rather than brown.

3) That yeast likes high temps. I like to start it at 75 F and ramp it up to 80 F over the first week and keep it there for the second week. Others like to start it lower and ramp it up over the first few days. Keeping it at low temp will not bring out all its flavors.

4) Leave it for at least 3 weeks before moving it off the yeast. 7 days is way too soon.

5) Make a starter.

6) Drop ALL the spices. This yeast does not need them. If you should want to use spices, they should be very subdued in a Belgian (maybe a couple of grams of paradise seeds); this is not a wheat beer and the yeast should be the centerpiece.

This really should be a very simple beer

 

[Prionburger]

I would concur with the thoughts on the spices. With a whole ounce of ginger it may turn into alcoholic gingerale. Imo, the best spicing is so subtle that it leaves you unsure if its even there. That means just a pinch.

For Tue sugar I would simplify it to 100% table sugar. It's the same stuff as candi sugar rocks. I'd also go up to 20% sugar. Chimay and leffe have about that much.

The other thing is attenuation. The best belgians finish super dry. You don't want this finishing at 1.012 max. You can do this with less malt, more sugar, less original gravity, and a low mash temp.

 

[deek76]

Ok made some changes based on your ideas... Cut all my additions in half, dumped the ginger, changed brown sugar to white, increased the 1st ferment cycle to 21, and moved the hops to 20 min on the boil to lower IBU...

LB^3 Laura's Belgian Bottle Blonde
Style: Belgian Blond Ale OG: 1.083
Type: Extract FG: 1.021
Rating: 3.5 ABV: 8.12 %
Calories: 271 IBU's: 19.74
Efficiency: 70 % Boil Size: 5.83 Gal
Color: 6.4 SRM Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
Boil Time: 60 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 21 days @ 75.0°F
Secondary 7 days @ 68.0°F
Bottle/Keg 14 days @ 68.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
4.00 ozs 2.17 % Aromatic Malt 60 mins 1.036
4.00 ozs 2.17 % Wheat, Flaked 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Candi Sugar, Clear 60 mins 1.036
7.00 lbs 60.87 % Pilsner Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Wheat Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Honey 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 8.70 % Sugar, Table (Sucrose) 60 mins 1.046

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.75 ozs 16.29 Styrian Goldings 20 mins 5.40
0.50 ozs 3.45 Saaz 20 mins 4.00

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale Wyeast Labs (null)

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
0.75 tsp Paradise Seeds 15 mins Boil
1.00 tsp Coriander Seed 15 mins Boil
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 15 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter 15 mins Boil
0.25 oz Lemon 15 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 05 mins Boil
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed 05 mins Boil

Mash Profile
(none)

Carbonation
Amount Type Beer Temp CO2 Vols
3.73 oz Corn Sugar - Bottle Carbonation, Priming Sugar 72.0°F 2.20

 

[Prionburger]

Hmmm, with an OG of 1.081, I'd want the IBUs closer to 30; kinda like Duvel. Belgian beers need to finish dry. It's really important.

Also, clear candi sugar is the same thing as table sugar, just more expensive. There's no chemical or flavor difference. If you want to save money, there's nothing wrong with using the cheapest table sugar you can find.

Oh, and for fermentation, I like to start it cooler; like at 66-68f. Keeping the yeast at this temperature while it goes through its growth phase will restrict the hot alcohols from forming. Once it starts chugging away, you can insulate the fermenter and let the temperature rise as it wants to.

 

[deek76]

Good to know thanks... It has been in primary for 11 days and bubble has slowed to about a min in between.... Should I leave it still till 21 days? Also I was going for a Blonde with some summer ale flavor... That is why the lemon, grains of paradise, and wheat malt.... Good move? Or no?

 

[Prionburger]

When the yeast is done, the beer usually drops clear. Meaning you can see light through it if you put a flashlight up to it. If you suspect you under-pitched, then I'd leave it pretty long. A beer like that shouldn't take too long to ferment out if it has enough oxygen and an adequate pitching rate. Two weeks is what I'd give it. You can always take a sample and/or hydrometer reading--if it tastes buttery or like barf; leave it.

With the spices it's always hard to say. My advice to people doing their first spiced beer would be to expect failure and treat it like an experiment. All the experts urge people to use much less; meaning most people dump way too much spice in the beer. Spices should subtly push the flavor of the beer, and should be barely detectable IMO.

 

[Calder]

I'd try and take the temperature up to 80 or even 85 for a couple of days to get everything out of the yeast, and then let it come back to Room temperature, and leave it to let the yeast drop out and the beer clear.

If the yeast has done it's job, I suspect the gravity will be under 1.010. have you taken a sample.

 

[deek76]

Ok just tried the first bottle of the recipe above, and some of you had it right, not enough IBU's, however the spice seems to be right on, great flavor, not over powering, and complimented the yeast very well... However, still made some changes, added the Honey 1 day after fermentation begins, slowed the first day of fermenation down to 68 degrees before bringing it up to 75 degrees, and also added 1 lb of Lactose to give it a bit more of a creamy texture... As well as adding some Amarillo Gold Hops to give a bit more to the aroma... Again any input would be great


LB^3 Laura's Belgian Bottle Blonde
Style: Belgian Blond Ale OG: 1.084
Type: Extract FG: 1.021
Rating: 3.5 ABV: 8.25 %
Calories: 274 IBU's: 33.05
Efficiency: 70 % Boil Size: 5.83 Gal
Color: 7.0 SRM Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
Boil Time: 60 minutes
________________________________________

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 1 days @ 68.0°F
Primary (Add Honey) 14 days @ 75.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 75.0°F
Bottle/Keg 7 days @ 68.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
5.00 ozs 2.69 % Aromatic Malt 60 mins 1.036
5.00 ozs 2.69 % Wheat, Flaked 60 mins 1.035
6.00 lbs 51.61 % Pilsner Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
2.00 lbs 17.20 % Wheat Liquid Extract 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 8.60 % Honey (add 1 day after in primary) 60 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 8.60 % Sugar, Table (Sucrose) 60 mins 1.046
1.00 lbs 8.60 % Milk Sugar (Lactose) 60 mins 1.035

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 15.32 Styrian Goldings 60 mins 5.40
0.50 ozs 5.67 Saaz 60 mins 4.00
0.50 ozs 12.06 Amarillo Gold 60 mins 8.50

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale (Starter) Wyeast Labs (null)

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
0.75 tsp Paradise Seeds 15 mins Boil
1.00 tsp Coriander Seed 15 mins Boil
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 15 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter 15 mins Boil
0.25 oz Lemon 15 mins Boil
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (If you prefer clearer Blondes) 10 mins Boil
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet 05 mins Boil
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed 05 mins Boil

Mash Profile
(none)

Carbonation
Amount Type Beer Temp CO2 Vols
3.73 oz Corn Sugar - Bottle Carbonation, Priming Sugar 72.0°F 2.20

 

[Prionburger]

Milk sugar in a Belgian beer is scary to me. I think you may get more cloying sweetness than creaminess. For mouth-feel, I'd look more to yeast selection and raw grains than lactose. The best belgian beers finish bone dry. You want no sweetness in the finish.

I think finishing at 1.021, you have an attenuation issue instead of an IBU issue. The OG may be too high, and the wort is not fermentable enough, and you may not be pitching enough yeast.

I'd go with less malt, less honey, no lactose, less gravity, more simple sugars (simple cane sugar), and a very low mash temperature (147-148f).

 

[944play]

Aromatic malt MIGHT have enough enzymes to convert itself, but almost certainly not enough to convert its own weight in flaked grain. Unless you're into starch haze, you'll need some base malt to have a successful mash.