BrewPi Remix – What’s Old is New Again

[day_trippr]

The PCB is the same 1.3.1-a.
But I'd have to pull the 1.3.1-a sch file over and fire up my old workstation to see if you changed anything in the schematic.
Always make a pdf!

 

[interalia]

Would someone who is running BrewPi Remix with a jacketed fermentor and glycol cooling set up be willing to share their best practices - advanced settings under the maintenance panel, chiller temp set point, heating options for jacketed conical, and performance results in terms of temp control?

I'm running a fresh install of BrewPi Remix 0.8.1 on Bullseye with 0.2.13 glycol shield on Arduino Uno. I have 6 gallons fermenting in a 15 gallon, jacketed conical (Brewershardware.com) using Beer Profile with glycol chiller temp set at 50 degrees F. No heater as haven't figured out how to do that with a jacketed conical yet. BrewPi turns on glycol chiller pump to cool. Everything is running well, but seeing bigger cooling swings then I would like. Obvious option is to set the chiller temp higher until ready to cold crash, but hoping to learn from others. Thanks.

 

[LBussy]

Would someone who is running BrewPi Remix with a jacketed fermentor and glycol cooling set up be willing to share their best practices - advanced settings under the maintenance panel, chiller temp set point, heating options for jacketed conical, and performance results in terms of temp control?

I'm running a fresh install of BrewPi Remix 0.8.1 on Bullseye with 0.2.13 glycol shield on Arduino Uno. I have 6 gallons fermenting in a 15 gallon, jacketed conical (Brewershardware.com) using Beer Profile with glycol chiller temp set at 50 degrees F. No heater as haven't figured out how to do that with a jacketed conical yet. BrewPi turns on glycol chiller pump to cool. Everything is running well, but seeing bigger cooling swings then I would like. Obvious option is to set the chiller temp higher until ready to cold crash, but hoping to learn from others. Thanks.

It may be as simple as having too much cooling. Do you have the option to restrict flow?

Adding (or int this case removing) too much energy will always spell trouble for a PID controller.

 

[balrog]

It may be as simple as having too much cooling. Do you have the option to restrict flow?

Adding (or int this case removing) too much energy will always spell trouble for a PID controller.

Logically then, one might think there is a way to adjust the sample rate perhaps so the PID algorithm could be better for the overall system. Or am I thinking about it wrong?

 

[LBussy]

Logically then, one might think there is a way to adjust the sample rate perhaps so the PID algorithm could be better for the overall system. Or am I thinking about it wrong?

You’re not wrong, but there are some restricted capabilities when it comes to the Uno. There is no way on God’s green earth that I’m going back in that code to try to make room for any other changes. It was incredibly well optimized when I took it over, and I had to delete individual letters and abbreviate words in display rings to make room for the LCD reset.

Moving to an ESP device is a more reasonable option, but I’m not sure what @Thorrak has done in the glycol space.

 

[interalia]

It may be as simple as having too much cooling. Do you have the option to restrict flow?

Adding (or int this case removing) too much energy will always spell trouble for a PID controller.

I will play around with the settings, but hoped someone may have been through this. I don't have the capability to restrict flow currently -- the pump is either on or off, but restricting flow may be the only option as I discovered chiller set point can't be higher than 50 degrees.

 

[LBussy]

They make these tubing restrictor clamps that should do it.

 

[LBussy]

A good PID system is not magic. In commercial controls, a cooling (or heating) loop will often have an inner and an outer loop. The outer one will constantly recirculate at a given fixed set point. The inner will use a three way valve to proportionately (the P in PID) change the temp of the inner loop based on demand.

When you have a 5 gallon mass of coolant that is at 50 degrees and apply it to a 5 gallon mass of wort at 70 degrees for a few mins, you’re likely to get 60-degree wort before your system has a chance to recover.

Or in a more dramatic sense: Using a welding torch to dry your hair may not ever be a great idea no matter how fast you react. The system never has a chance to ramp up (or down) in a way that can use the PID to prevent overshoots.

This is how the PID loop “winds up” and gives people widely swinging values. It never has a chance to regulate, and instead goes full tilt one way and the next over and over.

 

[balrog]

Using a welding torch to dry your hair may not ever be a great idea no matter how fast you react.

Great.

Now the mighty Google AI will be lobbying lawyers for a new warning label on welding torches.

Thanks a lot.

Right up there with ac units “do not drop out of window, damage and injury may occur” and lawn mowers “do not stick feet under deck while motor is running”

 

[day_trippr]

Wasn't there someone running a glycol unit using BPR in the last...8 months or so that was being helped here...or maybe a different thread?

 

[Barry_Duffman]

So I got the recommended rotary encoder and LCD (I2C), thank you guys for the heads up, and finally got a chance to play with it this past weekend. I can't seem to get everything to work and I've been reading the forum and some of the other builds and I just don't see what I've done wrong. I even re-imaged my Raspberry Pi 2 model B using the imager tool, followed the BrewPi remix website instructions to install, and still issues. I have re-flashed the Arduino Uno R3 three times using the I2C firmware (both versions because I read at one point the newest version had issues). Initially I got the the LCD to display but it became garbled after testing out the rotary encoder function. Occasionally I have script issues on the web browser but it has been up over 24 hours now but it isn't discovering any devices (temp probes, LCD, rotary encoder, etc.). Out of things to try and can't find anything else written about it on google or the forum. Thanks ahead of time for any insight you guys might have.

LCD (I2C)
SCL to A5 (Arduino)
SDA to A4 (Arduino)
5V to 5V (RS 15-5)
GND to GND RS (15-5)

Rotary Encoder
GND to GND (RS 15-5)
5V to 5V (RS 15-5)
SW to 4 (Arduino
CLK to 2 (Arduino)
DT to 3 (Arduino)

 

[LBussy]

you won’t see any devices other than the temperature probes. Which pin are you using for those?

 

[Barry_Duffman]

I put the data line from the 3xDS18B20 probes into one dupont wire with a 4.7 ohm jumper of 5v+ then into the Arduino A0 as A4 is used by the I2C LCD. At this point my LCD is blank though the led light on the back is lit and no amount of turning or depressing the rotary encoder does anything. The LCD was lighting up and the rotary encoder inputs were registered. The script will run on the web browser but when I go to refresh devices it just continuously searches and never stops, I've let it run like that for over six hours. Not sure what I'm missing at this point.

Edit
Scratch some of the above. I must have some bad dupont wires (thanks amazon) because I went through and tested them for continuity and some were bad. Replaced them and now I can see my 3xDS18B20 wires through A0. I also have a fourth DS18B20 that shows up despite only three being used yet I have four devices with four unique one wire addresses. Also I have additional devices that I assume must be the rotary encoder and LCD but that's just a guess based on the control pins being 5, 6, 2, and 10. Also, my LCD came on and displayed correctly for awhile but then turned off and input from the rotary encoder has no effect.

 

[LBussy]

My brain is scrambled today so I am not sure whether you are okay or not. Old OneWire addresses mean you need to clear EEPROM. Also, this sketch may help troubleshoot your physical layout:

https://github.com/brewpi-remix/uno-test

 

[day_trippr]

The only physical items you will display through Device Configuration are the ds18b20s. Everything else is simply hard coded in the gui - the cooler, heater, door switch, fan, and light.

The phantom ds18b20 is probably an artifact stuck in eeprom...

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

A ghost in the machine.

 

[Barry_Duffman]

Thanks for the quick replies. I cleared the EEPROM and the ghost DS18B20 is gone and everything from a breadboard on my desk is working properly. I'm going to try testing out the ability to trigger my SSRs as they only require 3v DC to trigger and start splicing them into the freezer compressor and my reptile heat lamp.

Mentioning the fan got me thinking as I planned on wiring the fan to run so long as the freezer is plugged in and the switch on the lid is depressed completing the circuit to the 120v AC fan. Is there a reason to have BrewPi control it? One less SSR for me to buy if its controlled by a simple marine switch on the lid and I assumed moving air keeps even temperatures so that would be optimal.

 

[balrog]

Thanks for the quick replies. I cleared the EEPROM and the ghost DS18B20 is gone and everything from a breadboard on my desk is working properly. I'm going to try testing out the ability to trigger my SSRs as they only require 3v DC to trigger and start splicing them into the freezer compressor and my reptile heat lamp.

Mentioning the fan got me thinking as I planned on wiring the fan to run so long as the freezer is plugged in and the switch on the lid is depressed completing the circuit to the 120v AC fan. Is there a reason to have BrewPi control it? One less SSR for me to buy if its controlled by a simple marine switch on the lid and I assumed moving air keeps even temperatures so that would be optimal.

My fan inside the ferm chamber always runs. No need to control it.

 

[day_trippr]

Same here, 24/7...

Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

A fan is a pro upgrade for both fermentation and serving. While I do have a control point in some of my projects for a fan, I generally just let mine go constantly. Especially in a chest-type, almost no reason to turn it off. If you have a n upright, maybe there’s some small advantage to turning off the fan when you open the door to keep all the air from flowing out, but I’d do that with a small relay and the existing light switch (if there was one.)

 

[balrog]

Curious question, but not any sort of a problem:

I have been running BPRemix on a Dell laptop forever.
I have a fresh install of BPRemix on a PiZero2W.

I have recently stopped logging a brew on the Dell, and I have never logged anything on the Zero.

I am surprised that the message is different.

 

[LBussy]

I vaguely remember a detection method that was in use there that was fairly inconsistent.

Sometimes you just have to guess what the person was thinking and try to give them a message that makes sense.

 

[Barry_Duffman]

My plan for the fan is to have a momentary switch on top of the box that the DS18B20 probes attach to so that when the lid is shut it completes the circuit and runs the fan. Cheap and simple.

 

[d_swordfish]

Hi, I recently got back into homebrewing and wanted to set up a brewpi to convert my old fridge to a brewing chamber. I inherited some parts from a friend who was downsizing including a RPi 3B+, a knockoff "Elgoo" Arduino uno r3 with a prototype shield and a couple of 16 by 2 LCD screens. The rest of what I need I'm ordering online. Before I hit go on my parts order I had a couple of questions:

• Am I going to have issues with the Elgoo? It seems to be a decent enough clone, and I can't see anything stating it has a CH340.
• I want to hook up one of the LCD screens but I'm a little confused which pins to use for this and which to use for the Fridge/Heater. I could also add a cheap I2C adapter to my order and avoid needing to do the parallel wiring. Is this the preferred way?
• Anyone have any experience using these: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/Shields/PWR-SWITCH/ or similar? I'm extremely tempted to buy a couple and hook them up to the arduino on some longish wires in place of the usual relay. That way I don't need to do any messing around with high voltage cables.

Any other tips welcome!

 

[LBussy]

Welcome @d_swordfish!

Am I going to have issues with the Elgoo?

Probably not. Early on in this project, there were many bad clones because money was to be made. Now that the Uno is "old school," the ones left seem to be the better choices.

That said, I cannot guarantee it. The issue most often arises in a multi-chamber scenario, and BPR cannot differentiate between multiple boards. If you are going just to have one fermenter, there is a 99.99% chance you will be fine.

You can always install the software without anything else (just the Pi and the Uno) and see how it goes.

I want to hook up one of the LCD screens but I'm a little confused which pins to use for this and which to use for the Fridge/Heater.

It depends on which variant you use.

with a prototype shield

This depends on who's idea of a prototype you have. If you post a picture, we can clarify it for you.

Anyone have any experience using these: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/Shields/PWR-SWITCH/ or similar?

Not that one specifically, but other folks from the EU have used similar ones. In the US, we're apparently cowboys where anyone decides they can safely handle life-threatening voltages.

I do need to get in there and address some install issues with Bookworm, and hopefully, I'll do that before they release Trixie. For now, download Buster images for your Pi, which should go fine.;

 

[d_swordfish]

Thanks very much for the help!

This depends on who's idea of a prototype you have. If you post a picture, we can clarify it for you.

Here's what I've got. Should be a reasonable base to do the electronics on for what I can see.

It depends on which variant you use.

I assume they all work with the parallel LCD. Any information (like default pins) on this beyond available in the docs here https://docs.brewpiremix.com/en/latest/manual/arduino.html?

In the US, we're apparently cowboys where anyone decides they can safely handle life-threatening voltages.

Something about 230v gives you double the clarity of vision!

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I used a similar shield to build my first three  BrewPi controllers with parallel 20x4 lcds. I recommend using I2C displays to greatly simplify the shield build. And if you can find one, use an actual BrewPi shield instead of using a prototyping shield...

Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

Here's what I've got. Should be a reasonable base to do the electronics on for what I can see.

Oh, I was thinking you meant one of the original BrewPi shield prototypes. Yes, that will work.

I assume they all work with the parallel LCD. Any information (like default pins) on this beyond available in the docs here https://docs.brewpiremix.com/en/latest/manual/arduino.html?

Well, using a parallel LCD requires quite a bit of circuitry. If that's what you want to do, you can look at the shield design here, which also has a schematic. That design allows both the classic parallel LCD and the I2C variant. I did this to be a sort of "gateway drug," but the I2C variant is far simpler (and probably worth investing in a different LCD, even if you already have a parallel one.)

fwiw, I used a similar shield to build my first three  BrewPi controllers with parallel 20x4 lcds. I recommend using I2C displays to greatly simplify the shield build. And if you can find one, use an actual BrewPi shield instead of using a prototyping shield...

Dave is giving you good advice. When an EE recommends using a purpose-built instead of a prototype board, there's probably a good reason.

Here is the I2C-only design and schematic. As you can see, this variant would be far easier to pull off in the event you choose not to have a shield created by a PCB manufacturer. The bare minimum for circuitry is a pull-up resistor for the OneWire. The I2C LED has only four wires.

I'll leave you woth one more thing, although reviewing the schematic should give you all you need: If you use the I2C, choose that version of the firmware and use A0 as the OneWire pin. If you use the parallel, you use the other variant and stick with A4 as the OneWire.

 

[d_swordfish]

Thanks for all the help. Looks like I will go with the I2C - ideally I would use a brewpi board but it seems tricky to get here without shelling out and I'm trying to do things somewhat cheaply. Since it's just the I2C and a pull up resistor to add I reckon I should be able to pull it off. Hopefully I'll be able to post some photos of the setup once I'm done!

 

[day_trippr]

That's a good point re simplicity of the I2C version.

Cheers!