Brett Infection on my ESB... Does this mean?

[theck]

Does this mean I have to toss the bucket and everything that touches it? I really hate to have to toss my auto siphon, guess I'll try and it it out with a tube... I thought I had grabbed a sample using the thief a while back and then used it in another batch to sample, maybe that was before it was infected? Should I toss that too? I also keg does this mean I need to replace all my lines, rings, etc? Maybe I'll toss it out, too much work for me, though I would like to try it out. Funny cuz I was just commenting on someone else's infection the other day and said I, knock on wood, have yet to get anything. Blah.

 

[LakeErieMonster]

I wouldnt throw any of it out. Just clearly label it and segregate it so it can be used in the future if you make any brett beers on purpose.

 

[theck]

I wouldnt throw any of it out. Just clearly label it and segregate it so it can be used in the future if you make any brett beers on purpose.

That's the thing I doubt I will... or want to. Not much of a sour fan really. And if I have to redo all my keg lines after I really doubt I will. Your close enough if you want the 5 gallons I'll give it to ya?

 

[theck]

I'm curious too how it happened, researching it I can't find anything. I sanitize the crap out of everything, I didn't add anything into it, and I haven't opened it in a loooong time, even then I peaked after 2 weeks and all was good snapping the lid back. I also cool with a chiller in 15 mins and brew day went fine... I did reuse yeast but I also used that in another batch and that one went fine?

Recipe: ESB Nitro
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.49 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 9.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs 9.6 oz Briess Pale Malt 2 Row (1.8 SRM) Grain 1 79.2 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.6 %
12.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.6 %
4.0 oz Avangard Malz Wheat Malt (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.9 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.9 %
0.5 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.2 %
0.60 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 25.9 IBUs
0.60 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 Hop 9 7.1 IBUs
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 0.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [12 Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 6.1 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 5.18 gal of water at 161.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 4.91gal) of 168.0 F water
------

 

[DSorenson]

I know that there is a general conception out there that equipment that has come into contact with infected beer is contaminated, but I am not so sure. I think proper cleaning should be sufficient. I had an apple cider go south on me with some unknown, unidentifiable, non-gunk-forming bug and I merely cleaned with Oxyfree and I was good to go. Never had a problem since.

Also, keep the brett infected ESB! Historically these pub beers were riddled with the stuff (also unintentionally). Brett itself merely adds a subtle tartness, not really that mouth puckering sour that you might be thinking of.

 

[theck]

I know that there is a general conception out there that equipment that has come into contact with infected beer is contaminated, but I am not so sure. I think proper cleaning should be sufficient. I had an apple cider go south on me with some unknown, unidentifiable, non-gunk-forming bug and I merely cleaned with Oxyfree and I was good to go. Never had a problem since.

Also, keep the brett infected ESB! Historically these pub beers were riddled with the stuff (also unintentionally). Brett itself merely adds a subtle tartness, not really that mouth puckering sour that you might be thinking of.

I would love to keep and try it but I really don't want to have to replace everything in my keezer when done or cause other infections down the road to my other equipment. Cost wise it's just not smart, perlick 630ss seals, tubing, o-rings, etc... I hear bottling it might cause bombs too, plus I have no bottles and would have to purchase them. Blah.

If anyone local to me wants the bucket let me know, maybe if you bottle I can get a sample or two when done. This was brewed on May 31st so perfect for bottling right now.

Looking back now too I used an old airlock on the bucket, I sprayed the poop out of it before adding it but it was from my first, old, 20 year old old kit... Hard to say I guess what the cause was.

 

[DSorenson]

I'm curious too how it happened, researching it I can't find anything. I sanitize the crap out of everything, I didn't add anything into it, and I haven't opened it in a loooong time, even then I peaked after 2 weeks and all was good snapping the lid back. I also cool with a chiller in 15 mins and brew day went fine... I did reuse yeast but I also used that in another batch and that one went fine?

Proper sanitation should be easily achieved if you are paying attention. Beer is pretty tolerant and I once successfully bottled a beer having accidentally not adding starsan to my "starsan solution". The only thing I can think about is perhaps how you handle the equipment after you sanitize. I treat everything as if I'm a doctor in surgery, making sure my hands have sanitizer on them or are not touching anything directly that comes into contact with the beer.

 

[DarthCitra]

Im curious how you know thats a Brett infection?

 

[theck]

Proper sanitation should be easily achieved if you are paying attention. Beer is pretty tolerant and I once successfully bottled a beer having accidentally not adding starsan to my "starsan solution". The only thing I can think about is perhaps how you handle the equipment after you sanitize. I treat everything as if I'm a doctor in surgery, making sure my hands have sanitizer on them or are not touching anything directly that comes into contact with the beer.

I spray my stuff before like a madman and after to air dry. Hands and arms included... I do the bucket tops when opening and peaking as well. Guess it's just one of those things never know.

 

[DSorenson]

...I hear bottling it might cause bombs too...

...This was brewed on May 31st so perfect for bottling right now...

I am no souring expert, but from even my limited understanding sufficient time is all that is required to preventing bottle bombs. Any bacteria needs time to finish it's work on the beer. Set that bucket aside for months and in the mean time start collecting bottles and brew your next beer.

Oh... and use Oxifree or PBW on your equipment that contacted that beer, just in case.

Again, I'm no expert, but I believe I am giving good advise.

 

[theck]

Im curious how you know thats a Brett infection?

Google searched... look matches images others have posted and I also saw some a while back that a brewer did on purpose.

 

[DSorenson]

Im curious how you know thats a Brett infection?

Also... this ^^^

 

[theck]

I am no souring expert, but from even my limited understanding sufficient time is all that is required to preventing bottle bombs. Any bacteria needs time to finish it's work on the beer. Set that bucket aside for months and in the mean time start collecting bottles and brew your next beer.

Oh... and use Oxifree or PBW on your equipment that contacted that beer, just in case.

Again, I'm no expert, but I believe I am giving good advise.

Ya not a bad idea I guess... thanks. Guess why toss it when say 3 months down the road I can bottle it. Man I just sold off all my bottling stuff, caps, capper, etc about 4 months ago too after I realized I would never go back.

 

[theck]

Also... this ^^^

http://mash-lauter.blogspot.com/2012/06/sour-bugs.html see Brettanomyces Lambicus

http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com/2011/02/brettd-beers-my-take-on-adding.html

 

[eastoak]

all of my plastic buckets, siphons and thieves have been used with sour beer, nothing is segregated and i have never had an unintentional infection. it comes down to sanitation practices not some idea that brett, pedio and lacto are somehow immune to cleaners and sanitizers. i'm not saying that everyone has to do this just that it can be done without problems.

 

[Talgrath]

Well, I'm not an expert, but that looks like Brettanomyces Lambicus; that can be found in the wild on the skin of fruit, do store fruit near where you boil and chill your wort? Or are the surfaces used to cut fruit and veggies from time to time? It's pretty rare for Brett to jump that easily, but it's a possibility.

As far as reusing the equipment, you can try buying hospital sanitizer, but it's probably worth more than the equipment http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...Citrace® Hospital Disinfectant and Deodorizer. Alternatively you could sanitize the hell out of it multiple times with the standard stuff and then try a quick, cheap batch of beer in it to see if the issue reoccurs.

 

[theck]

Well, I'm not an expert, but that looks like Brettanomyces Lambicus; that can be found in the wild on the skin of fruit, do store fruit near where you boil and chill your wort? Or are the surfaces used to cut fruit and veggies from time to time? It's pretty rare for Brett to jump that easily, but it's a possibility.

As far as reusing the equipment, you can try buying hospital sanitizer, but it's probably worth more than the equipment http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...Citrace® Hospital Disinfectant and Deodorizer. Alternatively you could sanitize the hell out of it multiple times with the standard stuff and then try a quick, cheap batch of beer in it to see if the issue reoccurs.

Actually I ferment carrots and pickles in the same general area. I thought maybe that was the infection... Well time to separate the two I guess, wondering if that caused it.

 

[brewhaha_rva]

I'm not going to put forward any faux-expert advice here but that is an awesome infection. Really cool, and you should be, in a strange way, proud of what you've done.

 

[brewhaha_rva]

Also, did you try the beer?

 

[theck]

I'm not going to put forward any faux-expert advice here but that is an awesome infection. Really cool, and you should be, in a strange way, proud of what you've done.

Ha it is very ugly but very cool.

 

[theck]

Also, did you try the beer?

Not yet. Might try to bottle it in month a two when I gather some together. Kinda worried to keg and put it on the nitro, were it was headed, if another happens I can't afford to replace everything. I super careful with sanitation but hear people can still have issues with this stuff.

 

[Talgrath]

Actually I ferment carrots and pickles in the same general area. I thought maybe that was the infection... Well time to separate the two I guess, wondering if that caused it.

No guarantee that's the source, but at the very least if you are going to continue to work in the same area, I would recommend thoroughly sanitizing any counter tops or tables before brewing there (honestly, that's good advice to anyone brewing anywhere). Bleach spray should do the trick, though if you're going to use it immediately a brewery sanitizer mix should do the trick and will be less harmful if your equipment brushes up against it.

 

[theck]

No guarantee that's the source, but at the very least if you are going to continue to work in the same area, I would recommend thoroughly sanitizing any counter tops or tables before brewing there (honestly, that's good advice to anyone brewing anywhere). Bleach spray should do the trick, though if you're going to use it immediately a brewery sanitizer mix should do the trick and will be less harmful if your equipment brushes up against it.

Sprayed and cleaned everything that came in contact with the carrots/pickles and did my brew area. Hopefully it was just a fluke.

 

[Talgrath]

Sprayed and cleaned everything that came in contact with the carrots/pickles and did my brew area. Hopefully it was just a fluke.

Best of luck, do tell us the results but I think it should be fine.

 

[theck]

CRAP! Just went to dry hop my pale ale and found this... same for the saison... not happy. What to do..... super pissed.

 

[theck]

the saison

 

[DarthCitra]

CRAP! Just went to dry hop my pale ale and found this... same for the saison... not happy. What to do..... super pissed.

do nothing but let it age and call it a bretty pale ale and a farmhouse saison lol

 

[theck]

I can't afford this... More buckets, more airlocks, more lids.... Not good. Thinking this might be it for a while for me

 

[theck]

Does the summer bring on more infection? If I just keg and deal with it what could happen? My whole system is f'ed at this point so embrace it?

 

[theck]

Well... I'm done for a while until I get some glass carboys, think I'm going to make the switch over to glass and hopefully it will help with this issue. My saison hasn't been opened until just today and it had the infection so something is in the buckets or air ?