Bottling time for carbonation without extra yeast

[1GallonNoob]

Hi Homebrewers,

This is my first post in this forum, I hope the clever minds in here can help me.

I am fairly new to brewing, I only have been doing some 1 gallon test projects during the last couple of years. Only bottled two batches of gooseberry wine and one batch of blackberry wine in the past. Now I am doing my first cider batch

3½ weeks ago I juiced a gallon of apple juice from some fresh apples I came by,
I used a cheap juicer than was not very good, lots of foam. Never using that again.
Heated it to kill off wild yeast. I used some fallen apples off the ground, and I read online that these require more than cambden tablets.
Transfered to glass demi john.
When chilled to about 40 deg C I added some pectic enzyme and let it chill further till the next morning, when I started the fermentation with SafCider yeast.
It had been kept at about 18-20 deg C (67 F) in the basement.

2½ weeks ago, after 1 week of fermentation, the bubbles had slowed down a bit, and there was a HUGE amount of lees in the bottom (2"), probably partially due to bad juicing. I racked it, and had to top up with 25% store bought juice to make up for all the lees.

Now there is a thin layer (½") of lees in the bottom, the cider looks reasonably clear where it is in the bottom of the neck, but I cannot see through the rest of the demi john.
Tiny bubbles are forming on the surface, but the airlock only has bubbles with more than 4 minutes in between.

My plan is to bottle in swing top bottles, and I want a sparkling cider.
I am aware that aging the cider for an extra month might improve the taste, and that that way I could be sure the fermentation is over.
On the other hand, I would like the yeast to have enough life left that I don't need to add new yeast with the priming sugar.

So what to do?
Wait for a month, rack in onto dissolved priming sugar and bottle?
Wait for a month, rack in onto dissolved priming sugar, add a bit of yeast and bottle?
Now Rack in onto priming dissolved priming sugar and bottle?
Now bottle, but with no priming sugar or reduced priming sugar to avoid exploding bottles?

I am asking since I tried to add priming sugar to my second batch of gooseberry wine, but got no bubbles - probably due to the yeast dying off.

Any usefull advice is welcome!
I will check the specific gravity, but I am not sure if my scale used the same units as used here.

 

[blasterooni]

First, take a gravity reading. And, depending on what you get, you might consider letting it ferment a little longer to dry it out. If its between 1.003 and 1.005, you could safely bottle at this point as one gravity point roughly equals .5 vols CO2. Also, and some will disagree, you might consider adding some yeast nutrient to the cider. The yeast might be getting tired, and may need a little kick to get started again to ferment the sugar in the store bought juice you added even though you are in secondary. Once you get the SG you want, then you could cold crash to help clear the cider before bottling (if you want it really clear, you could use fining agents such as gelatin and/or bentonite clay. I use these on occasion, but not with kveik strains).
Since you want a sparkling cider, you could use a priming calculator to calculate the amount of sugar to add, and perhaps use CBC-1 yeast to bottle carb your cider (Lallemande has a pitch rate calculator for bottle carbing which works really well).

 

[Maylar]

"Rule of thumb" (FWIW) is that after about 5 months you should consider adding yeast for carbonation.

 

[1GallonNoob]

First, take a gravity reading. And, depending on what you get, you might consider letting it ferment a little longer to dry it out. If its between 1.003 and 1.005, you could safely bottle at this point as one gravity point roughly equals .5 vols CO2. Also, and some will disagree, you might consider adding some yeast nutrient to the cider. The yeast might be getting tired, and may need a little kick to get started again to ferment the sugar in the store bought juice you added even though you are in secondary. Once you get the SG you want, then you could cold crash to help clear the cider before bottling (if you want it really clear, you could use fining agents such as gelatin and/or bentonite clay. I use these on occasion, but not with kveik strains).
Since you want a sparkling cider, you could use a priming calculator to calculate the amount of sugar to add, and perhaps use CBC-1 yeast to bottle carb your cider (Lallemande has a pitch rate calculator for bottle carbing which works really well).

Thanks.
So I can bottle anytime it is lower than 1.005, and I should reduce the amount of priming sugar correspondingly, correct?
So between 1.003 and 1.005 I would just bottle without priming. Between 1.001 and 1.003 I can add half the priming sugar I otherwise would, and lower than 1.001 I just prime for the carbonation I want? (using a priming calculator). Or something like that. I guess the specific gravity I want is completely dry, since it would otherwise be unsuitable for carbonation, so I guess I should not stop the fermentation.
It bubbled nicely after adding the store bought juice, so I will try without the nutrient if the specific gravity is low enough. I have some lying around just in case.
I also have some bentonite left over from a wine making kit, that I didnt use. But clear or cloudy is not that important to me, so I will go for the natural appearance. I only mentioned the slight cloudiness in case it meant that I ought to age it longer before bottling.
I am hoping not to need to add yeast again with the priming sugar, so I was really courios on how to avoid that.

"Rule of thumb" (FWIW) is that after about 5 months you should consider adding yeast for carbonation.

Thanks!
If this is valid at the temperature I am working at, I should be able to age it for a bit longer before bottling. I was just afraid that it would be too late as soon as the bubbles had stopped / SG was below 1.000.
I only have experience from my gooseberry wine. My first batch had a light fizziness, being bottled after 2 months, even though I didn't prime it. The second I primed after 4-5 months, but without adding yeast. Opened the first bottle a couple of month later, no bubbles.

 

[blasterooni]

If you want complete dryness, then let it go to 1.000 and below. Then use priming sugar. You don't have to add yeast to carbonate, however, when you rack to the bottling bucket, you will lose even more yeast, much like when you rack to secondary. Adding more yeast (EC-1118, or CBC-1 for example) will help speed up the carbing process. I've done it both ways, and I get better results (better does NOT mean quicker necessarily), that is more carbonation, and it was quicker, that is, in 4-5 days it's ready to drink as opposed to weeks. When I haven't added more yeast, the carbonation seems weak. Although, I probably didn't let it go long enough. It doesn't require much sugar or yeast.

Here is what I got from Lallemande for 1 gallon(https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...brewing-tools/bottle-conditioning-calculator/):

2.5 vol CO2
0.6 oz of priming sugar
0.38g CBC-1 yeast

 

[1GallonNoob]

Decisions, decisions...
I was really planning to let it age in the bottles until spring or summer before drinking it, so I would allow plenty of time for slow carbonation.

I don't plan on buying another kind of yest for this purpose if I can help it.
But I left some of the SafCider yeast in the satchel when starting the fermentation, since it said it was intended for a way larger batch. I has been in a opened satchel closed with a bulldog clamp for a bout a month. Do you think that would help?
And if I add some, do I add it to the sugar solution some time before racking the cider onto it, to pitch it, or du I just sprinkle it in the cider?

 

[blasterooni]

Decisions, decisions...
I was really planning to let it age in the bottles until spring or summer before drinking it, so I would allow plenty of time for slow carbonation.

I don't plan on buying another kind of yest for this purpose if I can help it.
But I left some of the SafCider yeast in the satchel when starting the fermentation, since it said it was intended for a way larger batch. I has been in a opened satchel closed with a bulldog clamp for a bout a month. Do you think that would help?
And if I add some, do I add it to the sugar solution some time before racking the cider onto it, to pitch it, or du I just sprinkle it in the cider?

I'm sure that yeast will work just fine. Perhpas follow the pitching rate suggested on the Lallemande site, that's what I would do at any rate. If you are using to bottle carb, I first heat the sugar in some juice or water to dissolve and sterilize it, let it cool to about 85F, and add the requisite amount of yeast. I either use a stir plate to stir it or a glass stirring rod, then pour it into the carboy/bottling bucket just before I siphon the cider in to it in order to get even distribution of the sugar plus yeast. Thereafter, I bottle, cap, and store in a dark place at room temperature. Remember to first fill a plastic, screw top bottle so that you can test and monitor the progress.