Bottling questions

[JudyP]

I just made 250 gallons of hard cider, it is just at the end of fermentation and still carbonated. I want to bottle this cider so it retains a little fizziness in the bottle and I am not sure how best to do this. I don't own any kegs, so I want to avoid have to buy a bunch of them if I don't have to.

My plan is to plate-pad filter it tomorrow, then sterile filter when I bottle hopefully next week. I have the ability to keep the tank chilled.

If I gravity fill the bottles, how likely is it that some of the fizz will remain in the bottle, especially after sterile filtering?

Are there other ways to get a little fizz in the cider besides force carbonating in a keg ( and without secondary fermentation in the bottle)? For instances adding dry ice to the tank or adding an CO2 infusion stone after will do the trick?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Asgard]

Are you serious about the 250G?!!! That's a pretty hardcore place to be while not having this figured out already.

I think you're going to have a really hard time trying to do anything other than kegging if you're asking these questions. My advice would be to buy 1-3 kegs and rack your cider into the kegs one batch at a time for forced carbonation. Dry ice is a terrible idea; I had the same idea when I started but if you look around on the intertubes you'll learn why that is not so good. Basically, even if you get the exact right amount of it in the bottle, the pellet will melt too fast for the cider to absorb it and you'll get a bottle bomb. If you put in a small enough amount to avoid the bottle bomb, you won't have sufficient carbonation once it's done being absorbed. The other problem you're going to have is that most large tanks aren't pressure tested, so getting it carbed inside the 250G tank may not work out. If your tank is pressure rated then great but I wouldn't count on it. As for using diffusion stones, without pressure on top of the cider you won't get any meaningful fizz.

If you can afford the keg setup you'll avoid wrecking your cider which at 250G is probably a lot more valuable.

 

[phug]

buy a kegging system with one or maybe two kegs, and use the agitation force carb method to get them carbed up quickly, and then then use a bmbf or other coutnerpressure bottle filler to get that stuff packaged.

 

[JudyP]

Yes, it is a lot! I have a commercial winery and make ice cider every year, this is the first year of attempting hard cider but only because after cryo-extraction of the ice cider I had a lot of juice left over and seemed a shame to put it down the drain. So I decided to ferment it and lo and behold it came out tasting really good!! So now I want to bottle it and sell it commercially under my winery bond. So this came up on me quickly and I am left trying to figure out how to bottle this stuff.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Asgard]

Yeah, you definitely need to get a few kegs, force carbonate it, and bottle it carbed. If you want to go through that volume in a semi-pro fashion, I would think you should pick up a blichmann beer gun. I use mine for bottling the last of my kegs and really like it. I would recommend some of the other, lower cost DIY solutions, but I think when you mix in the 'I'm planning to bottle 250G and sell it' piece it's probably best to spend the money. You'll likely be far less annoyed after the first 50 gallons than if you used another method.

Where's the winery at? If it's anywhere near me I might have to plan a trip.

 

[JudyP]

I am trying to avoid forced carbonation this time around and keeping things as simple as possible. I have read elsewhere that since I only want a slight fizz, then by bottling 'gently' using a gravity filler, I will be able to retain some of the carbonation that is already in the cider in the tank. Hoping someone in this forum could confirm that.

If I am going to force carb commercially, I would think that a pressure tank is probably the way to go.

 

[JudyP]

Asgard, I am located in eastern Washington State. Would love to have you visit.

 

[MaxStout]

Is there a winery or brewery near you that would be willing to bottle for you on a contract basis? Otherwise, that's about 1250 750ml bottles to fill and cork/cap.

 

[JudyP]

MaxStout,
Good idea! I will call around and see if someone has a bottle line that can do crown caps.

I have a mobile bottling truck come in and bottle my wine, but they cannot handle a crown capping.

 

[dstranger99]

did you mean 25 gallons ? or do you actually have 250 gallons ?.............

 

[JudyP]

250 gallons.

 

[Asgard]

I'm trying to understand where you're at right now. You're saying you only want a 'slight fizz' but whenever I'm done fermenting I essentially have ZERO fizz. Until I prime it in the bottle or keg it and pressurize, I get nothing. If you've got the fizz you want and just need some advice on how to bottle it gently, I'll have to quiet down and let somebody else try because I've never been there.

Back on my 'why should you keg' rant, it's really very simple to do. I would think you could rotate 3 kegs through and get 1 keg bottled / day. That's roughly 48 12oz bottles a day. Buying that setup with a bottling gun would run you ~$600. Just buying the 2700 bottles will cost a lot more than that. And the best part is that you can dial the fizziness to your exact preference just by setting the pressure on the keg. The more you're describing what you want, the more convinced I am that your only realistic option is to keg! (if you can't tell, I love my kegs :rockin

 

[JudyP]

I am right at the end of fermentation so there is still a lot of CO2, I stopped the fermentation before it went completely dry. Trying to avoid bottling one at a time. I do have access to a 6 bottle gravity filler, so my preference is to use that.

 

[Randzor]

I get fizz at the end, but whenever I rack then bottle it goes flat. Id imagine filtering will do the same.