Bottling and bottle conditioning question

[Jokester]

Sorry I'm new at this. I believe I bottled my first set of beers. Tell me if I did anything wrong.
So I over fermented a maibock espresso blend by putting amg and letting it ferment 16 or so days. It went to 1.00 but I didn't take a second reading a day or 2 later. I was driven by my social calendar not by the perfection of the beer. It was bubbling about once in 100 seconds and it had a ton of air space in the gallon, hence the haste to get it out before it may have gone bad was at play too I guess.
So I left the least layer on the bottom and put em in 3 camlock 1 liter bottles.
My wife handled the top siphoning tube by just keeping it under the surface as it dropped. So I got 3 quarts of beautiful clear beer. The 4th was barely 1/4 full and got some of the sediment. I essentially yeast caked the lot by putting another gallon of a very similar IPA+espresso on top with amg.

Now the 3 bottles, I left em at 72 degrees for what will be 5 days and they go in the fridge 8-12 hrs before we'd open one to drink. Is that enough to get it to carbonate lightly ? Is there anything that can be done to improve it at this point - say let it sit longer outside etc.

I drank the 1/3rd bottle the next day, it had nicely settled and the beer was very very good, albeit cloudy.

Thanks.
Srinath.

 

[bucketnative]

Did you add priming sugar? The yeast will need sugar to ferment in order to generate CO2. IF the primary fermentation (or whatever you want to call your refermentation of the maibock) was complete, there would be no residuals sugars to ferment. You would have only the CO2 that was in solution due to the primary fermentation, which would be about the saturation pressure of CO2, or roughly 0.8 vol CO2 assuming 72 °F. This will give a slightly discernible bubbliness, but not much.

 

[kh54s10]

If it was done fermenting and you did add sugar. In 5 days you might have some carbonation. I never try a bottle before 14 days and at that point some beers are carbonated and some are not. I would guess about 75% were carbonated. ALL of my beers have tasted better with 3 weeks conditioning or longer. With some beers it takes much longer.

Unless your aim is to get really dry beers I would forego using AMG. I would not have wanted to dry that one out. I have never used AMG or anything like it. I haven't had the need.

 

[Jokester]

I only fermented this batch to 1.00. Leaving about 8gm sugar in 12oz by my very hokey calculations. It does have some sugar, no where near dry. The idea is to get the sugar all done and eaten. So I didn't add sugar obviously. Hoping in 5 days atleast 1 bottle shows some signs of life, then I'll let the other 2 sit for another 10 days in 72F before fridging them. I am also afraid of exploding bottles so I essentially may be sacrificing a bit of carbonation here for an extra bit of safety too. But if the 5 days produces just light carbonation, I'll let the other 2 bottles go another 2 weeks or so.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Tell me if I did anything wrong.

1. You should make sure gravity is stable before bottling.* Your social calendar shouldn't determine when you bottle.
2. Counting bubbles is meaningless. Use a hydrometer. Read it to the thousandths place, i.e. 1.000.
3. Once the gravity is stable you need to add a controlled amount of priming sugar when bottling.

This is real basic stuff. Without following the basic precautions you may find yourself injured or cleaning up a mess of broken glass and beer.

FYI:
Glucoamylase does NOT break down 100% of the dextrins/carbohydrates.

Beer may start to oxidize if it sits in the fermenter for too long, but proper bottling technique to avoid explosions supercedes that. Besides oxidation, it won't "go bad".

The time it takes bottles to carbonate is based on your process. Some people need 3-4 weeks to carbonate, other need only 3-4 days.

*There are advanced techniques where you bottle before fermentation completes, but you're still learning the basics, so stick to what's easy.

 

[kevin58]

When bucketmaster asked about adding sugar he is not referring to the sugars in the beer... he means did you add priming sugar to the beer before bottling. You need to add priming sugar when bottling so that the remaining yeast have something new to consume. This produces your carbonation.

 

[Jokester]

When bucketmaster asked about adding sugar he is not referring to the sugars in the beer... he means did you add priming sugar to the beer before bottling. You need to add priming sugar when bottling so that the remaining yeast have something new to consume. This produces your carbonation.

I know he meant extra sugar. This espresso concoction has sugar in it, and it was still sweet enough that I am hoping the yeast catches onto it. In any case the idea is to get rid of sugar, so adding some just to carbonate isn't ging to help, I am hoping it eats the remaining sugar, if not, its fine uncarbonated as well.

@RPh_Guy - I added amyloglucosidiase. Yea its not a 100% but adding it to 2 different beers which I let ferment a week or so longer than this, I got .998 in 1 case and .996 in another case. The beer I used as the 80% was the same one I got to .998 and the 20% one had sugar in it, as sugar cos it was a blended "beer", They made a stout, added espresso and sugar and maybe even some spirit. Its sweet, has strong espresso flavor, is a stout and has 10.5% abv ? Not unless they made a 15-18% abv stout. This was $18 a 6 pack retail, so its definitely a well designed drink.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Glucoamylase = amyloglucosidase

Charging $18/6-pack doesn't make a beer "well designed".

Good luck with your experiments.

 

[Jokester]

Glucoamylase = amyloglucosidase

Charging $18/6-pack doesn't make a beer "well designed".

Good luck with your experiments.

If at $18 a 6 it flies off the shelves ?? its just popular I guess with people who can afford and taste better than the usual consumer BS.
Its a stone product, those guys seem to have my taste buds ,almost everything they make I love.
They had a 11.2% espresso totalitarian stout a few yrs ago, this is a more tame 10.5% abv.
I've heard amg called a lot of things, my bottle says amylo300.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[bucketnative]

When bucketmaster asked...

bucketmaster... I kind of like that.

 

[kh54s10]

Good luck, IMO you are playing with fire. You have no way of knowing where you stand as far as how much fermentation is left, how much sugar is in the additions, how far the AMG will take the gravity down..

The risk of bottle bombs here is good, or at the same time no carbonation. It is a crap shoot.

 

[Jokester]

I don't think my cam locks will keep pressure for the bottle to blow. Also I think you guys have a lot higher standards all around than I do, I'm trying to eliminate carbs in beers - which I thought I liked but after about 300 of each, I am - meeehh about.

There is still the 5 gal Jai Alai and OMG I found another case of Maibock - atleast throw in espresso and amg and ferment till yeast gives up seems to have some improving ability.
One more gal of redhare could be next though, that will be done on top of yeast cake and fermented to .996 or under for sure. I have a few gal of Jai alai as well and who knows more surely coming.

 

[RPh_Guy]

On this forum we tend to make our own beer instead of modifying commercial beer.

 

[Jokester]

On this forum we tend to make our own beer instead of modifying commercial beer.

I know, and you guys likely make fantastic beers. I am not setup for space or time to indulge in that hobby, however I buy high end beer for under 50c a can, in some cases its 33c or so, and modding it makes me feel like I've made something.

I also am a hard liquor guy and till 2017 I had not had the same alcohol twice. Yea when I was a beer drinker I did repeat, but for 5 or so years never the same whiskey/vodka/gin/brandy brand twice. I have the ADD approach to drinking, I like to keep changing it drink to drink/day to day.

I am trying to make harder liquor out of beer, to eliminate the carbs while keeping the flavor I like.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Jokester]

These did not carbonate at all, the one with the biggest sediment did a little, probably, cooling it pretty much negated it, the rest are flat. Can I just add a little sugar - how much sugar per 32oz. And how long to leave it to convert all of it to co2 ?

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[madscientist451]

On this forum we tend to make our own beer instead of modifying commercial beer.

Not always, I'm on a quest to clone Bud Light Seltzer
Well not really, but I've brewed some other clones and modified them to my taste and got lots of great information about that on here.
To Jokester: Your beer is flat becasue you didn't add priming sugar?
Since you have swing top bottles, you can easily open them and add some sugar. I would suggest using sugar cubes and add one per bottle.
Let the bottles sit a few weeks at room temperature or warmer and then chill one down and try it.

Is this the beer you used as inspiration?



https://www.stonebrewing.com/beer/s...litarian-imperial-russian-stout#ageGatePassed

 

[Jokester]

I added amg to a commercial beer to turn it into a brut, then fermented it till the airlock levelled out. I want no carb beer, I will further freeze concentrate it - basically I get it to less than 2 carbs per drink and I feel like I am still drinking beer and not whiskey.
Anyway there is all sorts of people here, I am into buying cheapo micro brews that have pretty much past their best by dates by months if not more, and hyper fermenting them to "brut" and freeze concentrating them etc etc.
The first set of Brut-ized, freeze concentrated, cold crashed batch is about to be tested for gravity, will post what its done so far.
I also blend a couple of beers to make both more drinkable than each by itself and brut it and hyper ferment it and so on.
Anyway, I may add a lot less sugar than a cube - I really don't care for carbonation for my taste, I want it to keep it from going bad.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[madscientist451]

That's an interesting project. There's a local beer store that sells past due date beer at a discount, but I just drink it or use it to blend with homebrew or cider. You are probably oxidizing your commercial beer when you pour it out to re-ferment it. Since you already have experience with fermenting and some of the equipment, perhaps you should try some 1 gallon BIAB batches?

 

[Jokester]

I have bought BIAB's before, I somehow cant boil and do stuff like that. I'd probably burn the house down, or burn the beer or something like that trying it. Besides, I am under 30c a drink before I hyper ferment it. I do that I am near 20c a drink, 1/2 the price of whiskey and under the cheapest vodka per drink. Its a bit of effort.
As for oxidizing - I have had several people taste the freeze concentrated item, to the extent of wanting to start a business with me, from someone who used to be a distiller. I really doubt the freeze concentrating process oxidizes. Now I have only started the brut-ization but the end product of that tastes identical to the beer I started with, I just get more of the concentrate after that process.
I am actually open to someone tasting it if they're local to NC/SC area.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I really don't care for carbonation for my taste, I want it to keep it from going bad.

Use oxygen-absorbing bottle caps, minimize bottle headspace, use gentle transfers, and add at least 2g of sugar per gallon. That's all that's needed to deoxygenate water, and possibly that applies to beer as well. Such a small amount won't add carbonation.

 

[Jokester]

Oooo - Never knew such a thing existed. But I put like a bit of sugar in the beer and it quickly frothed over and I slammed the cam lock shut. In a few mins it had levelled off, so hopefully its now carbonating and will do for a week, then I'll refridgerate and drin and post back.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Jokester]

I left the yeast cake/sediment at the bottom of the concentrate bottle over night without washing it and it turned form a off white to a brownish color. Is that oxidation ? I have never seen that transformation in any of my beers, including the ones that had 20% espresso. A month almost in the fermenter and its still dark liquid and a light off white sediment. I'm pretty sure I'm not oxidizing any of these. The co2 in it keeps it from changing or getting bad bacteria or fungus while fermentation kicking in, and fermentation makes so much co2 it stays sterile and once I bottle it, I rarely ever leave the bottle out, though I did for 1 batch, but all subsequent batches are frozen very quickly and then melted out to the 30-35% abv I'm shooting for.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is that oxidation ?

Yep.

I'm pretty sure I'm not oxidizing any of these.

Oxidation affects flavor long before it significantly affects color.
There are degrees of oxidation. You likely just don't mind some mild oxidation, and that's fine.

The co2 in it keeps it from changing or getting bad bacteria

The mere presence of CO2 does not prevent contamination.

it stays sterile and once I bottle it

Homebrewing is never "sterile". The best we can hope to achieve is "sanitary", which greatly reduces the likelihood of contamination.
However, microbes certainly aren't going to grow in something in the 30-35% ABV range, so contamination may not be an issue for you.

 

[Jokester]

Aaah, good to know, much like anything else in life, oxidation is analog with a "knee" it can never be 0, it is undetectable/untasteable till it hits the knee at which point its yuck …
I've got good tasting beers and concentrates, they taste very close to the original, just seems to have "more" of some and less of some other aspects, but easily tied back to the original.

I am going to dive into a 30% redhare hyperferment rewired shortly and I can assure myself, its as clean and clear as it can be before the knee. No grey for that one, its predecessor sedimented out and got grey, I made a few different errors on that, causing a sediment, I also had more time and more of an incentive to let it settle. Not so much on this one. This was a better freeze concentration process.


Cool.
Srinath.